And a lot of it has nothing to due with old stadiums and lousy teams. Check out turnstile numbers in Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Toronto, Texas. Seattle and yes, even the NY Mets too in their spacious new CitiField. Earlier this year, the Orioles drew 9000-plus fans in Camden Yards; the Indians have had 11,000 crowd-counts numerous times in their new yard.
Call it a combination of deep recession blues, (the pundits are chirping that the economy is picking up, but severe unemployment in Calif., Michigan, Ohio, etc is still pretty huge) Combine ticket costs, parking, ($17 in Oakland, which is absurd) and the cost of a hot dog and beer? Hello empty seats.
Look, there's no denying that both Krukow and Kuiper know their stuff; I don't question their legitimacy and I'm sure both are thorough professionals, but Krukow's "grab some pine, meat!" shtick is truly small-market chirping and not worthy of large-market status. Ditto Kuiper's overblown home run calls, and yes, I know about John Sterling's daily clown act for the Yankees, but Sterling has been doing that shtick for years, and not just for the Yankees; he IS what he IS, we know that, we do.
I'm not comparing "Kruk" and "Kuip" to Sterling, but I would like to say, given the legacy of an area that is known to be "above 'pronounced 'homerism", I would only remind them to pay attention to history. And, oh, by the way, Jon Miller is terrific, and clearly one of the best pbp guys, and A's core tonsil, Ken Korach is the best. Yes, the best. Korach gets it.
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biggest homer? have you ever listened to Greg Papa during a Raiders game (great announcer, but boy, what a homer), hell he is the only one still defending Jamarcus.
ReplyDeleteIf you want a homer listen to Ray Fosse and see if he can mention an A's player without using their nickname's.
And have you forgot about the area's all-time homer Bob "Mr. Warriors" Fitzgerald.
Krukow and Kiuper always give credit to good plays/pitches, etc made by the opposing team. Just the other day on a pretty good 2-2 pitch to a Giants batter, Krukow asked where that missed, the Giants' hitter is lucky he is not on his way back to the dugout.
And the grab some pine meat is used maybe once, twice during a game?
Krukow might go over the line sometimes, but Kuiper??? Never heard him referred to as a homer. Nice relaxed style who knows when to turn up the excitement.
It basically comes down to a lot of your takes, East Bay good, underrated, always getting no credit, put upon, and San Francisco bad, over-rated, always given a pass.
So predictable
Lighten up Rich! Is this another case of the Bay Area being to cool for the room? man get over yourself. The fans LOVE kruik & kuip! Show me exactly where it is written that because we live in the SF Bay Area we are above everybody else.
ReplyDeleteMonte Moore and later Harry Caray were the two worst homer announcers around here.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I'm getting cranky in my old age, but I think that Kruk and Kuip mostly suck. Let me also say that I think the best broadcasters were not ex-ballplayers. In fact, when I think of the best broadcasters I have ever heard -- Vin Scully, Bill King, Lon Simmons, Marv Albert, Jon Miller Ken Korach -- none of them played profesional sports.
ReplyDeleteI understand that this is a different time, and that the Larry Baer-led Giants have really stacked the deck in their favor with the media voices in the Bay Area. Baer put a couple of his lap-dogs in the broadcast booth, the team has a financial interest in both KNBR and Comcast, and they basically have silenced any dissenting or critical voices, much like communist dictators do.
My problem with Krukow and Kuiper is that they're both bush-league talents. Krukow can, on occasion, offer up a very insightful comment and give you a glimpse in to what he could be as a broadcaster if he wasn't such an insufferable goofball. He also refuses to be crtical of Giants players when they are hitting or pitching poorly. If a Giants pitcher is giving up homer after homer in a game, he'll say, "The ball is really carrying tonight better than it did in batting practice." Of course the Giants themselves in the same game have zero home runs, so I guess it's just carrying for the other team. This is when a Hank Greenwald or a Bill King would says, "So-and-so is really pitching poorly tonight." End of story. I also can't stand how every Giants player has some skill that is among the "best in the game." Years ago, the Giants hired Tim McCarver to do about 20 TV broadcasts with Krukow throughout the 2001 or 2002 season (I can't remember which one), and at one point Krukow said of then-Giant Tsuyoshi Shinjo, "He's got the best outfield arm in the game." An incredulous McCarver said curtly and with a hint of anger, "I have to disagree with you, partner." McCarver never came back after that one season, no doubt disgusted by the antics in the booth with those two lesser lights.
Kuiper just doesn't have the chops to be a big-league broadcaster, and next to the ultra-pro Jon Miller, he sounds like he should be broadcasting high school baseball games. And the over-the-top homerun calls on pedestrian homers that bring the Giants within 7 runs of tying the score? Geez, gimme a break! What a clown.
Mychael Urban has a family to feed and he'll say whatever the Giants tell him to say. Same with FP, who didn't make much as a player and needs the paycheck. The one guy who would call out the Giants for lousy play or management decisions? Damon Bruce, who they took off the post-game show. Obviously, Baer didn't like the tune he was signing, and wanted one of his trained canaries in the slot.
Damon, it appears, is the only one with any sack over at that station.
When I was young, I used to listen to "Sportsphone 68" after Giants games with Ken Dito. When the team played poorly (as it often did), fans would call in and vent to him and he was fair-minded about it. He didn't have an agenda, and the team didn't pressure him to tow the company line. I can remember many a call with a fan blasting the GM, Tom Haller, or the managers of that time (Dave Bristol and Frank Robinson). Now, they'd never get through the callow call screeners at the station. I like to watch the games, because as the late Pete Franklin used to say, "Despite all the nonsense, the games themselves are fun." But I turn the station after the game has ended so I don't have to listen to the propaganda of the broadcasters or the worthless post-game wrap from lackeys that are hand-picked by the team to spin the story.
A couple of other thoughts:
ReplyDeleteFirst, Bob Fitzgerald is an appalling broadcaster with a pip-squeak voice and no ethics. Talking to fans, he has to be the most disliked person in Bay Area broadcasting, and the anger towards him goes back to when he back-stabbed the popular Greg Papa to get the Warriors job. Now, he has become a shameless shill for the organization, and even went to Douglas Niedermeyer-like lengths to please his slave-master Chris Cohan by posting on Warriors fan sites under an alias. ERRR, I mean "allegedly" posting under an alias. Can you imagine the courtly and dignified Bill King ever stooping to such a level? Let me answer that question for you: No, you can't. I have to believe that new Warriors ownership will terminate Fitzgerald's worthless bum. He would not be missed.
Second, KNBR won't talk about Oakland sports because they want the A's and the Raiders gone. The A's probably aren't going anywhere, except to San Jose, so it will turn out that all the Giants and their personal mouthpiece (KNBR) would have done by helping to make the A's less popular to East Bay fans is to force the team to move to a place (the peninsula and Silicon Valley) where they will REALLY hurt them by stealing a large chunk of their corporate support. Well played, morons.
well at least nationally both Bay Area baseball broadcast teams did very well compared to other MLB clubs. (Giants and A's both rated 2nd in their league)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2005-07-26-announcers-overview_x.htm
What!?
ReplyDeleteWhistley voiced Monte Moore and current announce Ray Fosse lead the pack of "biggest homers in local history"
Krukow is a homer, but at least he is entertaining. Moore and Fosse not so much.
McCarver was in the 2002 season and I think he was friends with Krukow. Krukow didn't push him out. The fans did. We didn't like the idea of a national guy coming in on the weekends and covering the Giants. McCarver has great baseball knowledge but he didn't know the team.
ReplyDeleteWas it fair? Maybe not but Bay Area fans take some time to warm to outsiders. Even the rough and gruff Joe Angel couldn't come home again.
I really think there are bigger Homers back east calling the game. Just listen to how they call homeruns for the opposing team and the lack of energy. I really can't stand Ron Santos with the Cubs. From what I was hearing, it sounded less insightful and more like cheerleading.
Yeah, Fitz is quick to put down the sport of Baseball and what is wrong with it but refuses to give an honest look at the Warriors and Basketball. It always seems to be, "Well, if they were not injured...". And what about that rogue ref? D-Bruce brought up the stats for that one ref with Mavericks games that could reveal more than one of basketball's referees being in on the take. You won't hear that kind of talk on KNBR from 12-3.
RR -
ReplyDeleteHow about this call by Kuiper on Ryan Spilborgh's home run to beat the Giants late last season,
"This is not good, folks."
Is that how a pro like Vin Scully or Bill King would have called that moment? I'm sorry, I don't need a friggin' chearleader for my team in the booth, but that appears what Giants management wants. As I said, Kuiper mostly sucks.
I do like Kuiper. Sounds more like Kuip's type of humor on that call. Listen to some of the calls back east and it is a quick dry sour grapes call: "Twins hit a homerun. Tigers lose 3 to 4. The end." kind of deal (just randomly picking teams there)
ReplyDeleteI don't mind the team preference as long as they don't sugar-coat or gloss over the bad stuff or facts. After all, announcers know who butters their bread.
You do have some options with the Giants with Krukow being the farthest to the Homer side and Jon Miller to the least. I think Miller is that way because he does so much national TV. He explained it once by saying you have to keep your audience in mind and play up the excitement, regardless of which team, when something dramatic happens. With the national games, fans from both teams or more are tuned in. With the Giants, it will be a Giants audience. So the calls will be through their rose-colored glasses. But, again, when it goes too far like a Fitz, it is too much for me.
You have got to be kidding!
ReplyDeleteHave you heard broadcasters in other markets? It's almost laughable to hear them. It's as if the visiting team doesn't exist.
The aforementioned Ron Santos is among the most pathetic and embarrassing.
Krukow and Kuip give credit where it's due - whether it's the Giants or their opponents
Take an earful of other announcers and you'll be thankful to have Krukow and Kuip calling the local games -- I know I am.