I don't think I'm breaking any new ground here but by and large, you have to be first and foremost, entertaining, to have a sustainable audience and unfortunately, most of liberal radio is boring. Lecturing, unflattering, pompous, repetitious and a blueprint to disaster.
Or do you remember Air America's fate?
And by the way, I'm not pimping for conservative talk radio, nor am I anywhere right, left, independent, (as if any of that stood for anything in this country).
And I acknowledge that most of conservative radio is run, owned and orchestrated by big business and corporations, (see Cumulus, ClearChannel), but corporations are guided by profit, not political bends and if liberal radio had true marketable, popular and entertaining personalities, they'd be on the air, in any market, in the deep south for that matter.
Michael Savage has been highlighted here a lot, but even he's now resorted to a mostly political show that bashes Obama as its constant. Boring. Just as boring as left-leaning shows that continually bashed George W. Bush. It may have been right, but it didn't translate to entertaining broadcasting and it had little to do with politics.
First off, most Americans are fed up with the whole political scene. Have you checked Congress' approval ratings? And while political radio makes for a great conduit for groups like the Tea Party to stir up the base and make sure Obama care is carved out daily, most people are tired of the wretched, over-the-top partisan bickering. By both sides.
Stephanie Miller is boring. Ed Schultz says the same thing over and over. Ditto Mark Levin. And Hannity too. Rush Limbaugh still has the command of the orchestra but even Rush has jumped the shark.
It's all about the numbers. It always has been.
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You are so right on this. I had to stop listening. Only KCSM now. Jazz only.
ReplyDeleteFor once someone who actually knows how radio works!!!!
ReplyDeleteSpeak for yourself. I can listen to Obama bashing all day long. Bush bashing too...can't get enough of it, you know why?
ReplyDeleteBecause voters need to understand they are criminals who need to be arrested. The Bush's, Clinton's, their box-gangs and key masters to all those banks they're sucking off the top from. To say you're "tired" of the bashing of these people is to play into their hand.
The problem with AM/FM talk these days is that its edgeless. No bite, save for Savage now and again. Compared to the information available on various web networks, its fluff and part of the misinfo, disinfo theater.
Agreed. And now they'll push Hilary down our throats for the next 2 years like she's something special and will miraculously save us all in her pants suit.
DeleteWhat difference at this point does it make???
DeleteYou only mentioned a few liberal hosts, of course as I have written before in this blog, there are lots of liberal talents that are not on the air, or at least not on the air much. John Rothmann, Stacy Taylor, Christine Kraft, Peter B Collins, David Lazarus (he fills in for Norm Goldman once in awhile and use to be a week-end host on KGO), I like Bill Press, and Alan Colmes, Randy Rhoades as well. I have never heard Ed Schultz radio show, I don't care for Stephanie Miller's format. Gil Gross is liberal, but his show these days are so robotic, devoid of any creativity and spontaneity, it really does not matter what he is, mostly he is just plain boring. Same
ReplyDeletefor Frosty, 910 is in an upside down world, Ed Baxter was in for Frosty, and although he was following the no call format for the most part, I found him more interesting and listenable than both Gil and Frosty. John Rothman was in one day for Gil, even though it was right before xmas he got calls. The fill in hosts are much better than the regular hosts on 910. If any of the hosts I mentioned above was on the air my favorites would be: John Rothmann, Stacy Taylor and Bill Press, then Pat Thurston, David Lazarus and Peter B. Collins then Brian Copeland, Alan Colmes and Christine Kraft. The problem is not that there are no liberal talent, the problem is they are not on the air.
for Frosty
What about Randi Rhodes? Never listened to her. But for some reason I'm not excited about her being added to 910. Would much prefer Tom Sullivan back during that time slot. 2 hours, instead of his 3, would be preferable to nothing. Is she boring and predictable, from the "liberal" side like most of the other nationally syndicated hosts? Does she do all the talking or does she take callers? 910 brags about having the most local talent of any SF station, but so what? The hosts do all the talking and the subjects are repeated during all the different shows. There are only so many topics current in the news in one day, and hearing the opinions of the hosts and the "experts" is boring. Never do they have a guest for an hour anymore and conduct a really in depth interview. I know, I know, the American audience supposedly has a short attention span and needs topics popping all during the hour. But I don't buy it. Ratings haven's significantly improved with this move by all the stations (NPR included, except for Forum). So clearly changing the format is not the answer. I have my radio off more than on these days because there's nothing to listen to that's very interesting.
ReplyDeleteRandi Rhodes was better talk show host at 610 WIOD Miami in the early 90's but once she got to Air America, she became a total loon and unlistenable just like the rest of the hosts. Radio needs to go back as a source of entertainment not a source for endless political hatred and division.
ReplyDeleteBlah blah blah blah. I'm the only liberal in local media..and you cant wait to post all the haters even if you have to edit my posts even more for their ammo.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course your list of liberals is all..well,you know. When it comes to Mexicans,immigration, for example, Arny was more liberal then them.
Same old crap. Nobody with a new view..except me. And I do sports great also.
You want a new view? You're not a liberal.
DeleteWhat you are is an anti white, self serving racist plain and simple. If something benefits a minority, or a minority more than a white, you're all for it regardless of societies best interests or who put in the effort.
Your inability to put any thought into what's really going on beyond what your flavor of leadership tells you is what Arse Nardmann specifies in his second paragraph...divide and conquer. (Nice post Arse, as usual.)
You're capable of doing better, do it. Make that your new years resolution.
And its not hating white people. But,that is the easiest way to avoid any insight if you play the "U hate white people.com" card.
DeleteNobody here hates Christina Loren...
Stan is not in local media and does not represent the liberal perspective.
DeleteDid Laura Ingraham completely stop doing talk shows? If so, I hope she gets another one soon. Laura has fun on the air w/o becoming venal or base. Absolutely, we need Tom Sullivan back here now. Oh, and count me in as belonging on Team Gil. I like Gil Gross, his voice AND his wife, I like hearing them speak of their interesting lives and deep knowledge of the broadcasting business.
ReplyDeleteI love Gil's stories about him at WLS in Chicago
DeleteBut after a while it gets old and all the same. If you listen once in awhile, then it can be entertaining, but every day listening just gets to be background noise. I know nothing about WLS or Chicago or the people he worked with, so the stories don't mean a whole lot and who really cares about his work environment many, many years ago.
Delete11:30 A.M and 9:01 P.M, you are both kidding, right? I hope. The host is not there to talk about him or his life, he is there to entertain the listeners and hopeful inform and keep them interested. Gil stories from the past and his back and forth with Rhoda when she is on, is boring radio. I'm surprised at Gil's show he was pretty good on KGO he was a huge fan of Gene Burns, didn't he learn anything. Can you imagine Gene doing a show where he tells story after story from his past work places, talk to an expert, and doing a dumb criminal segment? No, me neither. I totally agree with 9:43 who cares, it might be okay and funny once in awhile, but not on a daily basis. Of course when you have a 4 hour show and don't take calls you have to do something to fill the time, which I guess what Gil is doing, his over the top banter with Lloyd Lindsey Young, the traffic person, his uhm, yea, he is trying to fill the time, and my guess is his rating are in the toilet, deservedly so.
DeleteI don't care for Savage, to much ranting, rating and yelling. However I have to give him credit for being consistent, he was always against us being overseas. Levin and Hannity (and I assume Rush don't know never listen to him) conveniently became anti war when Obama became president. No one was beating the war drums more than Hannity when we went to Iraq, He is a hypocrite, because he cannot bring himself to have a little intellectual honesty, and his fans are not willing to call him on it.
DeleteAs for me liking Gil's WLS stories I have a different take on it. I worked in the business for 15 years and radio station stories fascinate me. Radio people are a different breed. Most are egotistical, insecure and downright quirky. I know so many people like the ones that Gil speaks of I see myself or know people just like that. Radio used to be a fun work environment and WLS was a perfect example of it. It's a part of radio history and should never be forgotten
DeleteI understand, but how many of the listeners have the background you have, I don't think it is getting him ratings. I'm just fed with Gil and his show he is boring, boring and boring. Do I make myself clear. I just don't care for Gil's style anymore. Ed Baxter sat in for Frosty, and although he followed Gil's and Frosty's format he was much more entertaining.
DeleteBy virtue of its participatory nature (real or imagined), talk radio is a natural refuge for those who feel their views and values are otherwise unrepresented. Conservatives, both social and fiscal, are frustrated, fearful, and angry, and thus represent an audience for the taking. Small wonder they listen in such large numbers. That said, what is called conservative talk radio (or television) is to genuine conservatism what margarine is to butter -- an artificial mix meant to satisfy only the desperate or dull. Listen to Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the others and their enthusiasm for endless and reckless war will leave the true conservative with a bad aftertaste. There is nothing conservative about spilling American blood or bankrupting the nation to serve foreign or corporate interests.
ReplyDeleteConservative programming on radio and television accomplishes exactly the same thing being done on the liberal side (busy celebrating itself), it keeps the American people so busy tearing at each other that, other than uniting in their moronic hatred of the latest Hitler illusion, they are helpless to rescue the country they love.
One of the best thought out posts ever. Very good Arse.
DeleteArse Nardmann, you clearly do not listen to Savage. He is totally against any intervention at all these days and has been calling Iraq War a total disaster for years now.
DeleteYou're right about Savage. I've also heard Levin say he doesn't understand why we are still in Afghanistan. I love the way so many people who like to do generalized smears of conservative talk radio reveal by their very words that they don't really listen to it, but merely repeat talking points against it cooked up by a variety of leftists.
DeleteMy apologies regarding Michael Savage; his opposition to invading Muslim nations, based on his oft-stated preference for bombing them into submission, qualifies him as a genuine conservative hero.
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmDKrXonK8g
Arse Nardmann, nice pull from 2007. LOL. His views have changed a lot since then.
DeleteI invested another minute and found a "pull" from a year ago. Keep LOL... you're laughing under Savage's false flag. He's peddling the same interventionist crap as the rest of the Neo-Cons, and it has nothing in common with patriotic American conservatism.
Deletehttp://mediamatters.org/video/2007/11/02/savage-lets-get-it-on-lets-bring-it-on-bomb-ira/141564
Rich, I predict there will be a huge out cry all across America!
ReplyDeleteAs people begin to see the intended GOP result...
BRAINWASHING OF THE PEOPLE.
Just like this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jensenko/the-brainwashing-of-my-dad-documentary
Article on the same subject of Brainwashing America:
Deletehttp://www.salon.com/2013/10/11/fox_news_and_talk_radio_brainwashed_my_dad_partner/
Will the Democratic liberal sheep put down their iphones (you know they're 5 times the cost but they're so much better because they have a picture of an apple!), stop facebooking, stop electing Democratic leaders that promise them everything for votes while pandering to the illegals, and come out of their parents basements long enough to participate in said huge outcry?
DeleteOf course, CBSNBCABCCNNMSNBCNYT etcetera are all models of impartial, balanced reporting.
Delete#4:10...How you DISTRACT from my original comment.
DeleteAnd 4:29...Wow, more distractions, nobody mentioned balanced reporting or imbalanced FOX REPORTING!
Now, there's an example of being BRAINWASHED!
I agree with Kathleen Dalheim. All talk radio, including sports talk, has become boring. I know that it isn't going to happen but I believe more stations should switch back to a music format with a wide range of music represented. Fortunately, we do have XM, Pandora, or other music outlets we can turn to.
ReplyDeleteThe ONLY reason Conservative Talk Shows make money is because they are *Paid Propaganda* outlets from the extreme right corporations who buy advertising at hundreds the amount of regular advertising.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't because Liberal shows don't have an audience, since Randi Rhodes outdid Rush Limbaugh when head to head in their native Florida! Examples of companies switching from liberal to sports channels when there are already 3 or more sports channels in The market area abound, all of which ended up with a fraction of the past audience! But since that channel was owned by a Rightwing Corporation with several other Rightwing channels as a propaganda outlet, the head office still made tons of money!
So if you base the Liberal channels going under on listeners, you'd be wrong! If you said that radio owners preferred the more lucrative contracts with propaganda machines funded by the Extreme Right, then you would have a point!
So critical thinking skills make it quite clear that this is actually Economic Censorship. Enjoy the Pure Propaganda from the Right...even though it is destroying this country with LIES.
Delusional. Not worth saying more.
DeleteAgreed 1:50. Someone needs to put down the Obama Kool-Aid.
DeleteYou're right. Breathtakingly delusional. It's almost comical.
DeleteThe show that does politics that is NOT boring is the one that Rich shows unfathomable disgust with: Armstrong and Getty, who are on early mornings on 919 and 650 out of Sac. They are funny, they are rational and give the other side a chance, and even though they are conservative (and contrary to what Rich claims, make no secret of the fact that they lean right) they will bash Republicans all day long as well as Dems. Do they seem to pick on Dems more? Well, news flash, most of their show is about the state of California, which is pretty much controlled lock, stock and barrel by the Dems. When Arnold was governor, they laid into him all the time, and they went after Meg Whitman for being an empty vessel when she was running. Rich clearly has a bias against them, I know plenty of people who lean left, or don't even care about politics, who tune into A&G because they are funny and entertaining.
ReplyDeleteI agree. It took a while for me to get used to them. At first, I was put off by Jack, tone of voice; exaggerated to the point of sounding cartoonish at times. Most times they are not dignified. But yet, they are worth listening to. Both hosts allow us to know the way they think, not just the way they feel at that moment. Many of us, especially men, find them easy to like. The two hosts are different enough to equal a balanced personality that is comfortable with being quirky. Both men have a noble side too, they help raise mucho dinero for the Fisher House, which care for severely ill children or adults and provides a place to stay for the family for a certain amount of time, all for free. I think the also help with Wounded Warrior. No, they often don't act dignified, but yes, they have dignity still. Their irreverence (to legend in one's own mind) icons is fun too. You should hear the interview their producer did with Casey Anthony;s former lawyer. It was like an on the air Bi**h-Slapping done with a microphone. Hilarious. They said something to David Cassidy that made him mad enough to just hang up the phone, mid interview.
DeleteThe political talks have become forums for the extremists on both sides. It has become not just boring but extremely classless and un-productive. The web and blogs too. A few loud extremists are pushing the agendas now.
ReplyDeleteI have never seen such hatred from both sides and it all started when Bill Clinton took office and keep carrying on til today. The extreme left and right hated Bill Clinton and I still don't understand why. This was ways before the sex scandal, btw
I used to vote all the time but no more. It is so sickening.
You still don't understand why Bill Clinton was bad for the country? If you still don't get it, you are a loyal party follower who votes as Chris Mathews tells you to, without questioning or you are willfully ignorant, amounting to much to same thing. I will just say the Clinton's administration helped to make openly lying to the American people something many were willing to accept, in order to further their more weighty agendas. Cronyism, Spousal favoritism was rampant. Have you forgotten Hillary's Filegate episode from 1993? All those confedential FBI files on her and Bill's political enemies, the one's that got 'lost'? I haven't forgotten. Go back one step further into the dark and scary past. Bill Clinton as Governor of Arkansas authorized AIDS tainted blood from local prisons to be shipped and distributed to foreign blood banks, as in Canada, where it contributed to an unknown number of deaths in blood and plasma recipients. Gov. Clinton was alerted numerous times about the severe mismanagement in his prison system and med. operations. Over two thousand Canadian recipients of this tainted blood got the AIDS virus between 1980 an 1985. At least 60 thousand Canadians were infected with the hepatitis C virus between 1980 and 1990. Obviously, Bill Clinton was never fully vetted.
DeleteGood story, but war, death and debt bothers me more.
DeleteOh, and lying about it and the patriot act.
Hey Rich - Can't wait for you to go head-to-head with Levin? When is that happening?
ReplyDeleteHa! Exactly!
DeleteLiberal talk radio hosts far too often will bash Christians. According to the Pew Forum on Religion, 73% of Americans identified as Christians in 2012. Since about three-quarters of the population are Christian, then it is logical to expect a majority of potential radio listeners are Christians who get completely turned off by a host who does nothing but criticize their particular religious faith. And there are many Christians who identify as being liberal. They would most likely prefer listening to a talk show with a liberal point of view, but too much bashing of their religion makes them turn the dial. Perhaps if liberal talk show hosts understood that, they might start seeing ratings success.
ReplyDeleteJesus was a liberal.
DeleteJesus was a dark-skinned liberal socialist who wanted to help the sick and overturn the greedy corporate infrastructures of the time--oh, wait, that's what neocons call Obama...while they're paying lip service to Jesus.
DeleteDoes...not...compute...
Exactly, Christine. So if Jesus was a liberal, as you say he is, then liberal hosts should be nicer to the followers of one of their own. Maybe then they'll start to get ratings.
DeleteWell , it could be, but probably not, because it's an inane concept. As for my own experience,sometimes I'm very nice, sometimes not. I'm not changing. I'm not part of the ratings game. I do fill-in. Have you ever seen fill-in radio host's ratings? where?
DeleteAir America didn't die out simply because it was liberal. Air America died out because the majority of it was AWFUL radio.
ReplyDeleteMy politics are left-leaning, but I could listen all the way through a Lee Rogers morning show -- disagreeing with almost all of the political content -- and find myself laughing and highly amused. Conversely, Rhandi Rhodes may share some of my political slants, but I am squirming in my chair after less than 10 minutes of her: she is an awful radio host with a grating voice and a laugh that reminds me of fingers on chalk.
So I find myself mostly agreeing with Rich on this: Most of the stations that are dropping these hosts are dropping them because nobody is listening; they're going to other hosts IN PART because people have listened in the past. Another important part is, they're available and have name recognition: KTLK can have Sean Hannity, please, take him: Talk about post-prime.
The extent to which "left" politics gets blamed for the demise of these shows, these formats, etc. is unfortunate. Radio is equal parts content and form. Really good entertainment transcends political lines.
Rich, I heard you on KSCO this morning. If your heart wrenching rendition of God Bless America a capella doesn't get you a full time talk show gig then nothing will! Where is that highly paid consultant when you need him?
ReplyDeleteConservative talk radio is like WalMart or McDonalds, it caters to the ignorant.
ReplyDeletePopularity is unrelated to quality.
I'm sure you think liberal talk radio is like a walk down Rodeo Drive. Wait, it probably is given most of the people who frequent it are hateful racist narcissistic personalities with no tolerance for anyone who disagrees with their views.
DeleteGet a clue, the (extreme) left and right are two sides of the same bad coin.
Every now and then...in the middle of the night... I bolt upright and wake up in a cold sweat...from a nightmare which finds me on a 13-hour flight....in the middle seat...with Rush Limbaugh seated on my right...and Rachel Maddow on my left.
ReplyDeleteRush is functionally deaf and uses some kind of hearing aid, although you'd never know it from hearing his talk shows. If you sat next to him on a plane, he'd probably be quiet, not knowing how his voice would carry while sitting next to a plane passenger. He might use his iphone to text you though. Rush would probably by drinks for all three of you, allowing Ms(?) Maddow to talk incessantly, allow her to talk her little self to a deep drunken sleep. Then, 15 minutes later, after her third Double Tequilla Sunrise, you would be in a Silence Sandwich, Rachael out cold, head in your lap! Cozy, huh?
DeleteIMO tom Sullivan is the closest thing to olKgo that you will get in the bay. And I'm talking the Big Jim Easton days.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with right wing radio is that all too often it falls into the same pattern: obfuscate the issues, simplify a complex problem to make it more palatable for the lazy, uninformed idiots who call themselves 'ditto-heads.' Most of the folks who listen and enjoy conservative talk radio are probably nit-wits who haven't been to college and who have no idea or concept about what has happened in this country over the last ten years, let alone the last 100! These are the same cretins who elect fools like that nit-wit Senator from Oklahoma, James Inhofe, who thinks that climate-change is a hoax! No wonder this country is going to the dogs!
ReplyDeleteI always laugh at the irony of people basically describing themselves in negative terms.
ReplyDeleteThis post above is why it succeeds; not why it doesn't.
ReplyDeleteLiberal radio has died because liberals are out there working two and three jobs to succeed while conservatives sit home on their asses bitching about how nobody but them is out working.
ReplyDeleteThose Liberals holding the two or three jobs simultaneously, are they the same ones who want unemployment benefits to be funded into infinity? Those ones? Are they the same ones protesting every Walmart opening up because that employer will not pay $16.00 per hour plus benefits to somebody with no job experience?
DeleteFunny post, has some truth to it. From listening to conservative radio and commentators, they do opine like they have monopoly on hard work. I always get a kick out of people who call and say they are successful and they work very very hard. That is true, but people that are successful and work hard (I use to be married to someone who was fairly successful) have certain comforts that the not so successful have, such as: a nice place to live, a nice comfortable car, possible a wife, or housekeeper, who keeps the homefront running smoothly, the can afford to take nice vacations (unless they are a workaholic) or at least long week end away. People that make minium wages or just a little above, work just as hard, and a lot of little things become a big time consuming problem, car breaking down, dental emergency etc. often can't afford to get away even if they have vacation time. I think most people work hard, it is just that the more you make, you can enjoy the fruits of your labor more.
DeleteRich bashes Rush Limbaugh, the highest rated host in America, making the most money for him and his syndicate. But earlier heaped praise upon Ray Taliaferro, probably the worst party hack ever to pollute the airwaves? I remain convinced that the only reason he's off the air is because the Democratic Party stopped paying for his air time. "There's a number open on the board!" No kidding. Who was listening?
DeleteI don't think that Rich bashes Rush because he is the highest paid, I think he bashes him because his show is predictable and he preaches to the choir, I don't get Rush never have, just don't understand why he has so many fans, I don't care for his bombastic style, and yes I do detest his politics, but I don't agree with Armstrong and Getty nor Tom Sullivan, but I have (or did before Tom disappeared from the Bay Area) listened to them for years, use to live in Solano County where I could get Sacramento stations (before Tom Sullivan was syndicated he was local from Sacramento). I never cared for Ray show although being a die hard jazz fan, loved his music selection and his show about jazz and the blues, and he could be funny, I actually often agreed with Ray, but not his style, that and the fact he was on when I usually slept I never listened much. If money is an indication of talent Gene Burns should have been the highest paid host, but too many Americans just want to hear somebody who echo their own beliefs, rather than being challenged by someone who has a different view. Sad!
DeleteProgressive talk is off the air for one reason, and one reason alone: The advocates for the 1% have purchased the majority of the talk-format radio stations. And booted the progressives off the air. Stations switching programming from middle left progressive to either far reich talk or all-news seldom get improved ratings in those time slots. Look at KGO, it changed from middle-left progressive to all news, and the ratings immediately dropped from No 1 or 2 in the SF market to number 15 or 16. Further proof will be evident as soon as the ratings for the 3-6 pm time slot on 960 AM. There is no way the far reich host is going to be able to compete with the ratings of middle left progressive Norman Goldman.
ReplyDeleteThis is America isn't it? A meritocracy? Then the show with the better ratings should be the one being broadcast right? Then why hasn't KGO returned to middle left progressive talk? And why was Norman Goldman cancelled and replaced by a host who couldn't possibly command better ratings?
Why? B/c America is no longer a meritocracy. America is an aristocracy, a plutocracy of major proportions. And the proof is in the pudding. Tune the AM San Francisco, hear anything interesting now on AZH (All-Zieg-Heil) radio?
You conveniently failed to explain why Air America failed. Or address any of Rich's points in his original post, which explain why your argument is complete nonsense.
Delete