Jon Miller is an accomplished and very good baseball announcer and I like his work. He's in the Hall of Fame. Fine and dandy.
But Jon Miller is overrated too.
Miller likes to tell stories. A lot of stories. Sometimes those stories overtake and consume the broadcast at hand. That many of the stories center around Miller is not good. Keep in mind that I like Miller quite a bit and think he's a solid broadcaster for the Giants.
But he's not great. Not even close. I would say Lon Simmons is in that category, but that's just my opinion.
Miller also doesn't give the score, (yes, it's a pet peeve, sorry), that much and that also makes him not the greatest announcer. I know a lot of you Giants fanatics will find fault in this, but surely many of you feel the same way, just won't say it. Including columnists and writers.
Miller also has an irritable tendency to often utter a whole lot of "Uh's"--next time you listen to him, count 'em. It's not the end of the world, but the "uh's" get in the way of the broadcast and especially the endless stories.
Another curious sidebar about Miller: He took the night off last Sunday. Not coincidentally, it was an ESPN national telecast. Miller, of course, privately detests ESPN since they booted him, (along with Joe Morgan), from their Sunday game. Fair enough, but nobody from the local booster club of Giants press corps bothered to inquire--I thought you'd like to know.
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Biggest problem with Miller is he talks incessantly. Also, as you stated doesn't give the score often enough. With a TV broadcast, that is OK, as you have a graphic up there, with inning, count, score and even the clocking of the pitch. But, nt giving the score a little more often than the end of an inning on the radio while telling (sometimes) inane stories that haven't much to do with the ball game is inexcusable.
ReplyDeletePlease, that's your criticism of John Miller is he doesn't give the score enough? How about you pay attention to the game? How many time is enough - after every pitch? Miller has been around the game for years and at various locations so he has met a variety of baseball personalities and experienced much of baseball history. I thourghly enjoy his stories as they are part of the legend of the game.
ReplyDeleteI feel that both Simmons and Hank Greenwald were better announcers than Miller. Miller does seem to be in to himself and in my opinion it has gotten worse since he was elected to the Hall of Fame. However, I do not believe that his absence on Sunday night had anything to do with ESPN. He has been taking time off lately and I noticed last night that he did not make the trip to Houston.
ReplyDeleteYes, it was said that Jon was "on assignment" last night...whatever that means.
DeleteThat's their little joke for whenever one of them has time off.
DeleteIt is understandable for one to be stuck in the past and think that Lon and Hank were better announcers. Taste is a personal thing. But, I notice that Rich is critical of Jon because he likes to tell stories. This is an interesting criticism considering that both Hank and Lon wer master yarn-spinners. Keep in mind that the announcers job is not limited to providing game updates - it is also to entertain. Now, I respect the criticism about not giving score updates. But, in all fairness, it is an annoyance that all radio announcers are guilty of (especially when I'm trying to get a quick updatge on game status).
DeleteMiller is awesome and we are lucky to have him in our market.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the "uh's", my theory is that he once watched Ch2's Mark Tamio and the affliction is contagious. Tamio is unwatchable.
Ken Korach is the best in the Bay. Hands down.
ReplyDeletePredictable contrarian Rich!
ReplyDeleteMiller is popular so of course Rich must criticize.
But of course, he can't neglect to glorify his beloved good old days. Lon Simmons, now he was a great announcer!
Lon was very good in his day, as is Miller in his time. I'm sure one could find something to criticize Lon about too, but why bother.
Rich,
ReplyDeleteThink you're off base on this column. If you've heard other teams announcers, we should be grateful Jon is here.
Rich's petty insinuation about Miller taking Sunday night off neglected to mention that since the games was being televised by ESPN there was no local TV coverage. That left 4 broadcasters to cover the game on radio.
ReplyDeleteYou don't need 4 men in the radio booth.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Mine is that I think he's hillarious! The rapport between him, Dave Flemming, Kruk and Kuip really makes for enjoyable listening and watching...for me anyway.
ReplyDeleteDo you want scores after each pitch? How many times would be enough? Com'on guys it's 2012! use the internet, get a smartphone check scores real time.
ReplyDeleteMiller has a very intelligent, dry wit, and I happen to like (most) of his stories.
ReplyDeleteAgreed about not giving the score enough.
Hey Genius, pay attention to the end if the half inning, they give the score.
DeleteMy take on Jon Miller.
ReplyDeleteLike his work. Like his work very much.
Is he Lon Simmons? No, but then, who is.
The only complaint I have is his failure not to give the score more often.
Rich you were not the only who NOTICED that he was gone Sunday night.
Once again, the Bay Area cheering lead squad will do it's best to quash any provactive story that involves the Giants or the Giants managment.
Miller is a top-tier announcer. Growing up, I loved to hear stories about baseball players, stories passed along through generations. You don't get that as much any more as fewer announcers have the longevity of people like Miller or Vin Scully, it's too bad.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Rich, anyone who is popular is overrated.
ReplyDeleteAhh now, Rich, you're just picking a fight to be irritable. Jon Miller's stories add a perspective and proportion to his broadcasts. I find them entertaining. You'll find that you're in the minority about this subject.
ReplyDeleteAbout missing a broadcast: recall that Mike Krukow took a night off in June-the night that Matt Cain pitched his perfect game. Between the travel, irregular work times, and just TALKING for hours on end I'm not going to begrudge the broadcast crew from taking the occasional extra night off. That Miller's was taken on a night that the Four Letter had it on is really not an issue.
To each is own. Those of you who are criticizing Rich for giving his opinion why do you even read this blog? Im suprised someone didn't through out the obligatory "Rich is just jealous that he doesn't have his job" since that seems to be the case everytime. So I guess that means that every single person is jealous that they aren't president because we all have not liked a president whether it be he leans left or right. Miller is incredibly over rated in my opinion. His story telling and impressions get real old real fast. I know you have to fill dead time inbetween pitches but Miller goes over board quite often. Thats just my opinion. I am not saying he isn't one of a handful of the best compared to someothers in the game but to say he is the best broadcaster going in the biz is a joke. He is behind Lon Simmons, Bill King, Monte Moore, Russ Hodges and Hank Greenwald.
ReplyDeleteGB,
Santa Rosa
Monte Moore, the homer with the speach impediment? He whistled whenever he tried to pronounce an 'sh'.
DeleteGood gawd.
I'll save Rich the trouble, here's his next post:
ReplyDeleteThanksgiving is very good holiday and overrated too!
Thanksgiving is a good holiday, lots of good food and drink, fun times with family and friends, etc. which is fine and dandy.
But it's not great, not even close. Sometimes Grandma runs out of cranberry sauce or there isn't enough a la mode for her delicious pumpkin pie which is so very annoying.
That's why I love Christmas. Now that's a great holiday. Lots of fabulous gifts, and all those great old Christmas carols.
Oh and that's another annoying thing about Thanksgiving. No songs and no tree.
Funny stuff! Rich, you gotta admit as much
DeleteMiller is great and deserves to be in the HOF. However, like most people using their voice to make a living, he's in love with the sound of his own voice. I think 99% of announcers can say this; what makes Miller great is that an overwhelming amount of listeners agree.
DeleteAnonymous @ 1:43 PM.
DeleteFestivus for the rest of us!!!!! Next up Feats of Strength!
Rich--
ReplyDeleteLove to read your blog, but please stop with the gratuitous bashing of popular people and events (Jon Miller, America's Cup, etc.) just to get a rise from the readers. And please stop with the vacuous "everything used to be better in the old days" rants.
I get it-- baseball announcers were better, toilet paper was better, Christmas was better, all media was better. In the old days.
In reality, a local news broadcast from the 1970s would be pretty much unwatchable now. And Jon Miller is a brilliant baseball broadcaster (you even dissed the fact that Miller is in the Baseball Hall of Fame-- please).
News flash: the Giants' TV and radio guys get time off during the season (like everyone else who has a job). The broadcasters schedule their in-season time off before the start of each season. So much for yet one more brilliant conspiracy theory.
Richard Dyer
The Fat Man is a legend in his own mind. When he started with Oakland and went to Texas and stopped in Baltimore, he was solid. Something happened along the way. The SF version is full of ego and self-importance.
ReplyDeleteAs far as giving the score is concerned, a Hall of Fame broadcaster (some guy named Red Barber, you've heard of him) said that it should be done every three minutes. You have people tuning in and out of a broadcast frequently. Baseball on the radio is like white noise in an office.
If you want to truly enjoy a baseball broadcast, listen (not watch) Vin Scully if you get the MLB package on DirecTV or when MLB Network decides to carry a Dodgers home game. He does it right. He's always done it right. The announcer isn't the event -- the game and the players are. Always will be. Unfortunately, some announcers forget that. An announcer supports the game with information. Sadly, these jerks who are EVPs of business operations for a team only care how much the announcer kisses their ass for job security or how much of a homer they are.
You make a good point. Miller and Scully are both considered to be among the best announcers in baseball yet their styles are completely different.
DeleteI have to agree; Miller was very good but often anymore he seems bored with doing the games. I don't know if he feels the (radio) stage is too small for him, because he does seem more prepared and energized when doing the NBC television broadcast with Kruk.
DeleteAnd Fleming has become a pompous twit who makes so many mistakes/misstatements per inning that I turn the broadcast off rather than listen to him.
Miller is an above average pbp man, but sure sounds like he loves to here himself talk. Lon Simmons and Bill King were much better IMO. Word has it back in the day that Bill King had one of those little sand hour glass thingies that ran out after 3 minutes, which would remind him to give the score out. Maybe Jon needs one of those. BTW, can't stand Mike Krukow. Doesn;t have command of the english language that well, and his schtick is lame.
ReplyDeleteMr. Barber had the sand hour glass to do the same thing. Intelligence thinks alike. Too bad the comedy act of Krukow and Kuiper don't have any. Like 1:55 p.m. said, these guys have probably brown nosed their way to the top by being the most ridiculous pair of homers on the West Coast. These guys would probably play well on a tractor in a Midwestern corn field, but not in an over-crowded metropolis.
DeleteIt's a shame people can't hear Lon Simmons and Bill King. Two class acts who put the game first and self second. Maybe some of the current yaps can learn something from these two.
Totally agree with you 4:59 about Bill and Lon--they were beyond awesome. I was so bummed when the Haas family sold the A's to Schott/Hoffman in 1996. The first thing the new owners did was to can Lon Simmons. Ken Korach was a great replacement, but Lon is a legend and was still doing a good job, the dry witt as sharp as ever. It came down to money of course. That ownership group dumped over a 3rd of the office staff with meager severance packages. I knew a ticket manager who was there since 1981 and she lost her job when the new boys came in. Sad.
Deletehttp://www.facebook.com/baseballhall
ReplyDeleteDon't forget to vote for Bill King for the Baseball Hall of Fame (Ford Frick Award) beginning 9/1/12 at the above link.
This has been driving me nuts since Miller was elected. How the hell could this long-winded, bumbling rambler be in there and not Bill King? Perfect example of a level of hell, watching Dodger game last week and the video freezes on the American League "out of town" scoreboard graphic. Well, you can tell from the live audio the game is going on but freakin Miller is in the middle of some stupid ass story and Krukow's right there like a brown-nosed puppy not adding anything relevant. I broke my remote.
DeleteMiller is smart, witty and doesn't take the game quite as seriously as some other local broadcasters, i.e. Mike Krukow who I find insufferable.
DeleteI really like Miller but ultimately it's really just a question of taste.
Tim McCarver is also in the broadcasting HOF. Nuff said.
ReplyDeleteWhere? In the Master of the Obvious wing?
DeleteOverall, I think Miller is solid and every entertaining, but I agree with Rich that when he's on the radio, he needs to give the score more often.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing that Miller does that drives me crazy is that, because he's spent so much time doing TV play by play, he sometimes has a tendency to get behind the action when describing it on the radio, so you'll actually hear the crowd reacting to something
that has already happened on the field, and Miller is late with his description because he's trying to say too much.
But overall, I think the guy is one of the best. We've been lucky to have had four Hall of Fame quality announcers here in the Bay Area: Russ Hodges, Lon Simmons (and even though neither is in not in the Hall of Fame, they're better than most of the guys who are in there), Hank Greenwald and Bill King.
I'd almost have to put Ken Korach down in that catagory too, although I get a little tired of his rampant homerism with the A's. IN fairness to ken, he is a paid employee of Lou Wolff, so what chance does he have at being objective? This year the A's have been a lot of fun to listen to, as that's how I mostly keep up with the A's by listening to their games on 95.7, 'the Game.'
I'm not a big fan of Vince Catronio though. Steve Bitker used to fill in a lot on the A's broadcasts when King couldn't make it to a game in the yeara 1998-2005, and I thought the A's were going to bring him on as the number 2 radio announcer, but they brought in this hack Catronio. Catronio sounds like every other Triple A announcer out there, nothing special. Korach deserves a decent partner. I turn off the radio when Cotronio comes on, because I can't listen to him.
Your second paragraph nailed it perfectly. It's almost like the action is too fast for him at times. And it has moved onto his TV work. Maybe less comedy would help.
DeleteSometimes. Miller rambles until he finds something to say. So, you never know if he's serious or joking around.
Ken is good; Vince, not so good. Ken's not as big a homer as Ray Fosse, who I'm getting a little tired of. Scott Hatterberg is not that great on the color, so Ray's job is safe. Monte Moore, the okie hokey pbp guy for the A's in the early years was the ultimate homer. Was so glad when Bill King replaced him, complimented by the dry wit of Lon Simmons.
Deletepure and simple.. I want the score when I tune in... the late, great, Red Barber used a 3 minute egg timer in the booth... he'd give the score.. turn it over and three minutes later.. you got the score.. which he beautifully wove into his narrative...
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to football.. no one beats former Green Bay announcer Ray Scott.. he understood the power of tv.. and rather than talking too much would allow the video people were watching and compliment it... i.e.: Starr drops back... Looks long... Caroll Dale.. Touchdown...
Somebody-not me- said that every member of the Giants broadcast booth are Republicans. It's sad to read that about Miller..and Fleming. The other two? No doubt was ever there..
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell does Party affiliation have to do broadcast teams? That's what's wrong with this country. Do you want EVERYONE to put a little R or D or I next to their name or signature? Freakin moronic.
DeleteIt is idiotic to quote a sourceless comment prefaced by "somebody... said."
DeleteIt is moronic and idiotic to use idiotic and moronic of a post where the guy admits,he doesn't remember who said it or how they knew. I was upfront about that. Learn to comprehend.
DeleteIf party affiliation doesn't matter..then why are most sports hosts on KNBR THEGAME,AND COMCAST are conservative Republicans?..by accident? Or those who hire have a preference? Odds alone in the bay area would say that's impossible to not hire people of color. But they have-and for decades now.
When you the one who doesn't break the door down..you'll think different. Or,think of affirmative action..that's white people claiming "We're discriminated!"..boo hoo.
How good is Vin Scully?
ReplyDeleteI've been extremely busy the past two weeks...and FINALLY had a "normal" night (i.e. home at 7). Last night I went grocery shopping, and on the way back I tuned in via satellite radio to the Dodgers game. When I pulled into my driveway, I stayed in the car for 20-minutes--just to listen to Vin.
After the inning, I finally went inside. My wife--noticing the longer-than-usual time it took me--said, "Aww, Safeway must've been been busy, huh? Thanks honey for going out--you're the best!"
Heh, heh, heh...
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/broadcaster-rankings-radio-10-1/
ReplyDeleteWe are lucky to have Jon Miller ....
@August 29, 2012 6:10 PM said......
ReplyDelete>> Somebody-not me- said that every member of the Giants broadcast booth are Republicans. <<
You say it like it's a bad thing?
Where does 6:10pm get off saying the Giants announcers are Republicans?! I know each of these guys personally, Kruk and Kuip for many years, and I can tell you that only one of them, Mike Krukow, is a conservative.
ReplyDeleteDuane and Miller and Flemming don't talk about politics much, but I've been around them enough over the years, and been in enough conversations with them to know that Miller, Flemming and Kuip all like Obama. Kruk doesn't, so I guess that makes him the rugged individualist of the group.
Someone was talking earlier about terrific radio announcers we've had for baseball...how about TV?
Miller and Kuiper and Krukow are all top shelf on TV, Miller is good no matter who he's paired with but of course, Kruk and Kuip are still a great match, probably the best TV tandem in the bigs these days.
Gary Park was 'okay' back in the day on TV, when he wasn't telling his intermidable restaurant stories: "I was in this little bistro in Montreal today...yesterday I dropped into this great little sandwach shop in Mission Bay called Ned's Place, they serve a DE-light-ful BOTTOM Fish there...I recommend it with a slice wedge of lemon and some tar tar sauce, and a glass of white wine, say Wente's Grey Riesling, 1974."
Papa was solid on the A's broadcasts for many years, and Monte Moore was always good on both radio and TV, although his homerism was too much!
Don't forget, the Giants also had Al Michaels during 3 of the worst years in Giants west coast history (1974-76), but when he teammed with Lon Simmons on the Giants casts in 1976, was there ever a better combo?
As far as forgettable....we've had our share of a few:
The late great Dom Valentino, who was with Red Rush in 1977-78 on the A's broadcasts. Red: "Here's the A's lineup, Escobar is now in left field, NUN-NU is being the plate, Shooty's over at second, Rickey moves over to right...d-Murph stays in center...
'the Arm (Tony Armas) is in right..."
Or how about Phil Stone of the Giants in 1986, or the worst pairing of announcers in bay area history (individually they were good, together...terrible!) Ron Fairly and Wayne Hagin in 1987-88 on the Giants broadcasts.
It's good to see that you elicited a lot of response from your readers with this topic Rich. Nice job!
Is Miller overrated? Yes. Then again virtually all MLB PBP guys are. I'd rather have Miller then some of the idiots doing radio broadcasts of games. Monte Moore had to be the most blatant homer I've ever listened to. Yes Kruk & Kuip are homers (and fully admit it) but they both have a ways to go before the reach the level that good ol Monte maintained.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes I wish Miller would give the score more often too. Somehow if that's the worst thing I can think of say about the guy I'd say he's still pretty good. Wayne Hagin is good and would tell you so himself. I went to school with the guy. Hopefully he's learned not to be so full of himself as he was back then.
Who cares what party the Giants' broadcast team is? Last I checked they covered baseball and not politics.
Rich stop hating on Jon Miller. What did he ever do to you...
ReplyDeleteMiller is terrific but Lon Simmons is the king.
ReplyDeleteMy pet peeve --- the sychophant Dave Fleming, with his high-pitched nasally voice. He tries too hard to be funny and is Jon's bootlicker.
Stop ripping the 'Flem.' He was in the right place at the right time for the Giants job, and was very lucky to get it, but he's proven to be a very capable, qualified, professional sports announcer, more than worthy of working in a city as big as SF
ReplyDeleteLove Jon. He's a great mentor for Dave Flemming and a barrel of laughs. He can be hard on players who have a low baseball IQ, but that could be the fan in him coming out. I don't understand why he calls out which archway a flyball hits--as if it matters whether it's the sixth vs. seventh archway. Regardless, he is generally pleasant especially on TV.
ReplyDeleteLon was great but could also get negative (in the 70's, he had good reason to get negative). Flemming is professional though I find some of his calls blah. Much better than Joe Angel. I found Hank Greenwald to be a little too predictable with his humor and word choice. The current foursome of Jon, Flem, Kruk, and Kuip are the best. The Postgame Wrap is hilarious. We should be thankful.
In their day, Scully and Hearn were better. And I'm a Giants fan.
ReplyDeleteGood note about Miller talking about Miller. I still have stories in my head about Joe Morgan, Willie Mays, McCovey, and Al Attles from these two. Can you say the same for Miller?
Kuip and Kruk, its all "pitch high", "pitch low", ... "gonna pitch him high", "shoulda pitched him low", "I think they'll try to paint the outside of the plate on this set-up pitch", "boy I thank the sponsors for the nice threads they hooked us up with", "in the dirt, just like you said", "set him up low..."
ReplyDeleteUgh!
Flem is wonderful pre and postgame. His play by play is just awful.Nerd alert.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with Jon Miller is that he is overcritical of any mistakes Giants make. I love constructive criticism of Giant's play but he sounds like he is blaming and angry. Kruk and Kiep point out mistakes but they are homers so they don't belabor those mistakes except to instruct.
ReplyDeleteJon Miller talks WAY TOO MUCH about Jon Miller. Kruk Kuip and Flemming are awesome. Miller needs to be quiet and let us enjoy the game sometimes
ReplyDelete