Another week of all-star fill-ins in afternoon drive on NewsTalk 910 as Gene Burns continues his recovery.
Monday: John Rothmann
Tuesday: Jim Gabbert
Wednesday: Gil Gross
Thursday: Ed Baxter
Friday: Ed and Rosie, (Ed Baxter and Rosie Allen reunited in the same time slot they dominated for decades at KGO).
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This is awesome! Newstalk 910 should grab Greg Jarrett for a morning show, since he got let go from WGN-AM/Chicago at the same time as the KGO blow out.
ReplyDeleteAwesome.
ReplyDeleteLooks as though Newstalk 910 is really sticking it to the suits at KGO. Take that!
ReplyDeleteSo sorry about Gene, however. Healthwise, he has been through a lot and this recent blow administered by Cumulus could not have helped.
Wow, that is great news! I do wish Gene a speedy recovery and return to the radio.
ReplyDeleteThey need to put John Rothmann on everyday, gabbert is an asshat, and other three lightweights.
ReplyDeleteLove the variety and so happy about Ed Baxter. When he retired, I must have missed any mention of it and there was nothing on the KGO page (no surprise there). I felt that I never got to say good-bye even though I wouldn't have actually got to say it. He just vanished and I felt uneasy about it all. Will enjoy hearing his voice along with all the others.
ReplyDeleteWednesdays are turning out to be a great radio day!
ReplyDeleteFirst, we have "Talk of the Nation" at 11--on Wednesdays they have "Political Junkie" Ken Rudin on. It's always a great discussion of the latest political happenings.
Host Neal Conan is fantastic as well every day. Although it's national, you can call in too. I have always loved Conan's patience and kind "Bye Bye" at the end of each call--so very different than Ronn Owens' rather rude and brusque treatment of many callers.
And NEXT Wednesday, I get to hear my Gil Gross again! Man--that guy is good. Maybe NPR can pick him up!
Note to Rich: thank you for making BIG LETTERS on that whateveryoucallitthingie when you go to publish a comment. It drives me nuts trying to read these things other places!!!!
I'm a bit concerned about Gene Burns. Two weeks out doesn't sound good, but I love how the other former KGO hosts have jumped in to provide us with a wonderful line-up!
ReplyDeleteJohn Rothmann does deserve his own show. Who else has the breadth of politic background? It was like old times listening to him yesterday.
Godspeed, dear Gene.
Baxter is an idiot. That was the only bright side to changes at KGO.
ReplyDeleteBaxter announced it on-air one morning. He said he was "sick and tired of being sick and tired." I'm sure he saw the writing on the wall after Mickey Luckoff left and when Cumulus bought the station. It'll be great to hear him and Rosie together again!
ReplyDeletethat'll keep 'em
ReplyDelete@ 3:40..."and other three lightweights."
ReplyDeleteEXCUSE ME?
This is great.
ReplyDeleteThanks Newstalk 910.
I am so sad to hear Gene is still sick.On the other hand I am gonna love the next week. How can we convince 910 to hire some of these people on a regular basis.The syndicated shows 910 runs the rest of the day are AWFUL.
ReplyDeleteYea 910!! So sorry Gene isn't well enough to return, and hope he is up and delivering his amazing opinions and fantastic elocution really soon. But in the meantime, thank you 910 for giving us "hope" for a New Year. Would love to see Gil and John on as regulars.....hate having to change the station during their earlier hours....but listened a bit and can't do it!
ReplyDeleteAnd, although never a huge Ed Baxter fan (liked afternoons with Rosie, but not the mornings). I thought it was crappy the way he was just KGONE! Does that TV company still exist, or did it vanish with Ed?
I like all of them.
ReplyDeleteToday I like Rosie Allen. Welcome back.
I get Ed Baxter and Ted Baxter confused. Which one was in Caddyshack?
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad someone else said they never heard Ed say goodbye. I know I was listening and never heard anything until I think Ronn was joking about it. I can't wait to hear him and especially with Rosie. They tended to disagree alot.
ReplyDeleteExcept for Gene (Get well, Gene), looks like Christmas is extended for another week. Love it!!
ReplyDeleteGene, get well soon. We miss you. I love Ed and Rosie together. It was always so fascinating to listen to their back and forth banter. Does anyone know if Ray T. will be back on the air soon?
ReplyDeleteAnother great week in Radio to look forward to! I only wish they had the airwaves at 9-noon as well!
ReplyDeleteI just got home, and tuned in to hear Rosie. How nice!
ReplyDeleteAs others have expressed, I'm sorry that Gene isn't quite up to snuff, yet. And, I hope that he returns soon.
In the meantime, I would love to hear this KKSF effort "lure" some more of the "KGOers" to permanent slots.
Who do Dining Around tomorrow?? Joel?
ReplyDeleteThanks for the 411 on the line up.
ReplyDeleteOld Mr Mattress should of grown a pair like this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQj6Q2LNLgg&feature=related
Rosie and Ed sure could teach Giggles and the clone something. They were awesome.
ReplyDeleteRich - I found your blog after trying to learn more about the hosts fired from KGO. Thank you so much for taking the time to keep people updated on this situation.
ReplyDeleteI was extremely disappointed to lose all the great information that was on KGO - such a huge loss. There was science, health, politics, history - now it's just repeated light news-ish prattle, no depth whatsoever.
Listening to John Rothmann again was so wonderful!! Thank you for the opportunity.
@4:41 According to his twitter feed, Joel will indeed be filling in for Gene tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteCool! John Rothmann was so good yesterday! Boy do I miss him!
ReplyDeleteI remember 10 or 15 years ago Rush was a novelty and everyone was talking. He is tired and he says the same crap he was saying then. It is hard to believe he still has a following. I know he just moved to KKSF but can he be dumped if a KGO personality was willing? Rich can you tell us if that would even be possible? Does the radio station sign a contract?
ReplyDeleteBill, Gil, John, Rosie, Jim, and Ed... fantastic! So glad KKSF is hosting all these wonderful KGO alumni while Gene's recovering.
ReplyDeleteI already listened to Armstrong & Getty in the mornings, and am now also enjoying the news updates by cBas. KKSF management was smart to take advantage of Cumulus' blunder.
Ed Baxter? 910 is grasping at straws. The guy is a bore.
ReplyDeleteOne big problem with Rush is that his goal seems to be to divide the listeners into liberal or conservative --as if there is nothing in between -- and do childish name-calling. Listen to that promo teasing his program on KKSF about stereotyping liberals. What good does that do to get a conversaton going? As divided as our government is right now with our politicians unable or unwilling to get anything done but just toe the strict party line, the last thing we need is Rush continuing to fan the flames of divisiveness. We need informed conversation more than ever.
ReplyDeleteClear Channel Radio OWNS the Rush program through Premier Networks. This is not uncommon. Clear Channel just decided to pulled the program it and do it to their own station because the contract allows them to do that without "prejudice". I've signed Rush contract in the past.
ReplyDeleteClear Channel gives up the revenue of the syndicated fee once given by KSFO, but if done well enough, local revenue can make up that amount by a greater amount over just the "coverage fee". Rush got a piece got the national advertising advertiser and Premier got the national ad revenue plus the station fee.
KSFO kept the local advertising, which now lost it gave up to save saving on the fee it was paying.
Thrilled to hear John Rothmann on Monday. What great news!!!
ReplyDeleteGet better soon, Gene! Thank goodness there are talented folks to fill in your shoes while you heal.
Julie, isn't it impressive how the KGO alums are stepping up to help their colleague? Such a display of loyalty and friendship is rare. Bur then, that is the kind of character that made us (until Dec 1) such loyal listeners to KGO.
ReplyDeleteA bunch of random thoughts on this:
ReplyDelete1) I always thought Rosie ran circles around Ed Baxter
2) I did hear Ed announce his "retirement" when he was on the morning news, after he had already "retired." I never bought it as "retirement" because when Dunbar and Wygant each retired, there was a lot of fanfare for each in the weeks leading up to it. It was not a surprise.
I think that Cumulus and Citidel use the word "retired" as their euphemism for "we shoved him out." because we just saw that with Lee Rogers and Officer Vic expounding on that on the KSFO side.
3) John Rothman is great; happy to see the KKSF folks didn't hold it against him about the KGO and 808 thing. We all need to form new habits to replace the old ones.
4) Get well soon Gene. Looking forward to hearing you again soon.
Baxter!!! Looking forward to him and Rosie once again. He and Rosie complimented each other. He and the gossipy ex-cheerleader were not well suited together.
ReplyDeleteNow about the weather... Where is Lloyd Lindsay Young? How about a cameo? Hellooooooo Lloyd! Please call in to 910 and give us the 411 on the 11's and tell us it's going to rain! ( notice the rain stopped when they fired him....)
Ahhh, like old times. So good to hear familiar voices again. =)
ReplyDeleteBring back Dr. Bill. The weekends are not the same.
ReplyDeleteFantabulous!--except that Gene is not fully recovered yet.
ReplyDeleteIt will be great to hear Ed and Rosie again--what a brilliant idea! ♥
Is there something we can do to let 910 know its new hosts have a large fan base or do the numbers show that? I wish they were on a bit later (not drive time) so more people will call in. In the meantime I am so enjoying our friends again.
ReplyDeleteI live with the hope that AM 910 will give John Rothmann and Gil Gross programs of their own on this station. These guys ARE talk radio for me. I'd be even happier if Mickey Luckoff and Jack Swanson could either purchase or lease in the next many months ahead a station with reasonable strength to be heard throughout the Bay Area. The more talk radio we get the better!
ReplyDeletelet's not forget that as the new 910 talk team is being built..the KGO brand is one thing..but many of the "all stars" filling in now were the same ones on board when the good ship kgo sank into 7th place for both news and talk..the trick for CC will be to get as much of the KGO branding and familiarity involved....WITHOUT the dead weight. Gene Burn's brain and mouth transcend all..but there is no surety that he will fully recover this time..sad but likely true
ReplyDeleteI want Gil and John to have full-time gigs (in addition to Gene and Len)
ReplyDeleteI was just looking at the 910 schedule and noticed they picked up Leo Leporte on Sunday. Another great show
ReplyDeleteTo 7:45,What place was the old 910 in? I'm sure it was well below 7th place.
ReplyDeleteJudging by the outrage on this site and facebook sites, I still don't believe the PPM ratings accurately reflected the listenership of KGO. If the PPM top-rated station KCBS blew up their programming as KGO did, do you really think there would be this kind of backlash? It's hard to believe they would. PPM's register a hit if the meter senses a station, even if it's just to check the traffic for a couple of minutes.
ReplyDeleteDoes KCBS have listeners that tune in from around the country and around the world? Probably not. Advertisers may not care about the non-local folks, but these listeners probably participate in some of the food drives, cure-a-thon etc., returning money to the local community. A better way to measure listenership nowadays may be to combine some of the arbitron methods with social media, number of callers during the talk hours, emails. Blips on a people meter aren't sufficient.
no one knows which audience sampling protocols are accurate...but that misses the point....The system that is used...is people meters.. The people meters put KQED and KCBS at the head of the class. Do you think the people meters are wrong...in that result?
ReplyDeleteThe thing to keep in mind is that PPM measurement doesn't mean a thing about "listening". It's sole function is about "hearing". It in no way more than an "estimate". Just as the diary system meant a lot of flaw-filled "listening" by those at the last minute who filled in (often incorrectly) their "diary" each week, the "People Meter" is even worse.
ReplyDeleteIf you're in an Internet cafe or restaurant and the "unit" picks up an encoded signal of a particular radio station that you may hate, it still get's counted and attributed to Y-O-U because your unit "said so."
It has nothing to do with actual radio "listening" ... only "radio hearing."
Be afraid ... be very very afraid.
Keep in mind, the deal with Leo LaPorte coming back is a good thing for listeners, but in the scheme of things -- a no brainer.
ReplyDeleteClear Channel / Premier also owns Leo's "Tech Guy" show, just like it does Rush. So, rather than KGO paying Clear Channel / Premier for the right to carry the show, they just gave it back to it's true "home base" and forgave the ad dollars to save on the expense of carrying it.
Just as Leo is at KFI in LA -- same reason. Clear Channel owns KFI and owns Premier, where it clears a lot of its own programs to keep it out of the hands of those weaker stations who wouldn't pay as much as it being on a KFI and where they can gain more local advertising dollars at a greater expenditure.
Just like Cumulus hopes to do with Red Eye Radio (which is already making bucks and clearing more than 150 affiliates) -- it's a way to clear the show at no cost in San Francisco for Cumulus and add to the syndication list "Look! We're in San Francisco!" The show depends on national advertising and is based at another Cumulus power house -- WPAP, Dallas.)
This is the game plan: More syndicated (by Cumulus) talent at little cost. Watch the weekends on KGO. It will be buh-bye Karel(thankfully) - no more Spencer Hughes, and more.
To that end, Cumulii will keep those AFTRA talents as minimally as possible so they don't have to pay (except tot he pension fund) while keeping some on "standby."
Do they give a rip that Pat Thurston does Saturday and Sunday morning (for now)? Of course not. Once they get their own component to cover the weaker dayparts (7-10pm, 8-11a.m., 2-5 p.m. etc.) there will be more changes.
Clear Channel 910 is in the same situation. They may breeze through the list for the publicity and slight boost (because of lack of power and signal) because it captures attention, but outside of Gene & Len, 910 has about had it's fill of spending big cash outside of these necessary "fill-ins.
Even as Fox News Radio distributes Colmes show and Hughes' show, it's all about the Benjamins but the devil is in the "true" details.
All is right with the world again. Saturday morning errand running in my car with Dining Around and Joel's familiar voice and continued fabulous show. Just like old times. I just with someone would pick up Joanie Greggains. Hers was my getting-ready-go-on-errands before Dining Around.
ReplyDeleteWishing you a speedy recovery Gene Burns!
Please, a little sanity here. "Hoping" for Rothman and Gross to come back to a local station is "wishful" at best.
ReplyDeleteRothman wants to be back on the air, yes. It's an ego business that after all the years he's done talk radio on the once mighty KGO is a step down the stepladder.
He doesn't need the money. He's a millionaire several times over. So is Wattenburg. Gil must be one by now after stints at ABC Radio, CBS Radio and at places like WLS, etc.
Jack Swanson and Mickey Luckoff were like gold to the "old" KGO. High salaries, personal servcies endorsement fees and stellar careers before KGO.
They aren't looking for next-to-nothing Karel like wages just to keep the union card active.
The ratings flap in the 25-49 and 25-54 demos helped killed the golden goose a long time ago. In a bad economy, advertisers and the agencies that represent them aren't buying stations 17 deep. You are in the top five, the top 10 or strongly making moves up or you're done. That simple.
Just because someone at 7 p.m. on Saturday says "I am number one," he must remember that being #1 amont 1900 listenrs per quarter hour in that demo alone is nowhere near as good as being #1 in the buying demos with 190,000 listeners in that range or #1 with 500,000 listeners over all in a week.
Lots of different stories in those numbers.
KGO's problem, strong (#4) overall numbers, but their "buying power" was largely 35-65 or, worse, 55-75 demos. To an ad buyer, that's pretty much off the radar, except in those 35-54 demos which is why Ronn Owens, Gill Gross and to a lesser extreme - Gene Burns captured.
From then on, it was all older people.
With Krap-ell, younger demo but fewer of them, but at least, younger. Sellable? Hear those ads? There aren't many. Why? Local advertisers aren't buying it. Some of those "remnant" spots are Per-Inquiry spots. Now there's those fabulous SweetJack to cover up the blanks.
Why do you thing there are only 3 spot sets and only 2.5 minutes each on his show -- mostly promos? Because they don't sell.
You can take that to the bank.
AM Radio is soooo dead. It will never be what it used to be and fewer listeners, all too old, will not be enough to support the "grey lady." Honestly. 20% of the current available audience listens to AM radio as it is now. It only took 35 years for FM to overtake 60 years of AM. Not a good sign. The sinking gets faster every year.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely, I think they are wrong as far as loyal listeners who listen long enough to actually hear the ads which is what the ratings are all about anyway. I also don't think it's just a coincidence that as soon as PPM's were put in use, KGO started "slipping" in the ratings. As John Rothmann said either at the rally or on the interview with Karel, a radio station doesn't consistently raise as much money for all the fundraisers as KGO did if it was losing listeners. Each year seemed to top the one before for cure-a-thon, T'giving charities, food bank, etc.
ReplyDeleteThe people meters obviously measured the "hits" but how many of them were in the local businesses that the raters just happened to walk into. Doesn't mean they were actually listening to those stations.
It seems to me that Arbitron ratings do not take into account the loyality of the listening base of a station. While I also have listened to KCBS from time to time to get the news I had no special connection to that station. I needed info I got info that was all there was to it. I had a different relationship with KGO. It was the talk show hosts not the news department that created that feeling. It would seem to me that advertisers would put more weight into a station that has loyal listeners. I think when a Gene Burns or Len Tillem read an ad it was more like an endorsement and carried more weight. I have not agreed with many of the mean spirited comments that many have made about Ronn Owens and other KGO staff but what I think that emotion comes from is a deep connection that many had with KGO and the lack of regard by the station of that loyalty. I think that connection that listeners had was completely missed by management and that is very sad!
ReplyDeleteCan someone explain to me (I ask this seriously) why FM radio is purported to be preferable to AM radio? Most FM stations don't come in as clearly, don't have as strong a signal, and don't have very interesting programming, in my opinion. Most are generic music of one sort or another. Why do people so often say AM radio is dead and FM is the thing to listen to? Seems to me it should have more to do with what is actually playing on the stations rather than the band they're playing on. I don't get it.
ReplyDeleteVery simply.
ReplyDeleteMost people 25-54 years old today, discounting their very early youth, were radio listeners starting with the era of music oriented FM stations. Now, that very same audience makeup is filled with young people who grew up ONLY in an "FM world" and with cellphones, computers, laptops, satellite radio, iPads, iPods etc. etc.
Today, it's increasingly more difficults (outside of CCrane Radios) to find AM radios ... even those attached to to AM/FM radios. The days of 6 or 8 transistor radios that thrived on low frequency response AM radio are now replaced by SmartPhones with Pandora, Last.FM, mp3 players and much more.
Them's the facts. Time marches on.
That's why CBS is increasing making the switch to simulcast it's often huge AM stations (KCBS, WBBM, WCBS and many others) to both FM and AM stations. Why? The young demographics only know FM radio and to grab them -- you fire the DJ's and run the same signal on FM & AM. It's cheaper and the oldsters willl still flock to AM (they grew up with it) and the younger demos have been dumping away from homogenized FM music lists to listen to young, hip FM talk, sports and ... "traffic and weather together" on the 8's, 5's or wherever.
In KGO's case, major problem. They have NO FM to blow up (at least now) to make the switch to FM. Remember, ABC dumped the KGO-FM they had and it flopped ..... 36 years ago.
Times have changed.
Perhaps someone can explain the desired demographic issue even though it's seems obvious to everyone else. With a huge Baby Boomer demo growing every day and with that demo seeming to have quite a bit of disposable income, why is there such a rejection of their listenership? Baby Boomers listen to talk radio along with younger people in their 40's. The teens and twenty somethings and 30ish people seem focused on the up to date electronic media and music, not talk. Why not appreciate the older audience while gently engaging the younger set over a period of years instead of destroying the entire KGO station? I don't get it. Do the younger audience actually spend more money on expensive mattresses?
ReplyDeleteThank you 11:31 for the explanation.
ReplyDeleteAnd 10:18, I wonder the same thing about spending. A generation ago, people married and settled down at younger ages, bought a house, started a family. Nowadays, how many 25-30 year olds in the Bay Area own houses? Not as many as before. So they're not furnishing houses or remodeling (zerorez, system pavers,sleep train, repipe specialists, Just remnants, Armstrong painting). Many people are still in college at 25, accruing debt, not spending.
As time marches on and things change, why has Madison Ave. not caught up to the times re: the demographics and spending patterns?
10:37 - Thanks for reading and you're welcome.
ReplyDeleteHere's the "inside" on how it works. Cumulus (and Citadel Media before it) could care less about most listeners. Any listeners, in fact.
ReplyDeleteThey care about the bottom-line. Money. How much profit they turn back to their investors who, in the case of Cumulus, just put $2.4 BILLION on the line for a group of three hundred radio sations - severeal huge 50,000 watt stations like KGO, WBAP, WLS, WABC and major market stations like KABC in LA and, most of all -- the hundreds of FM high-power stations that also filled that spectrum in those cities. Many going along with stations that Cumulus already had in markets like San Francisco / Oakland.
It's "efficiency of scale."
If KGO's great audience is markedly "older" --- that is, over 55+, it's harder to get advertisers to buy "angry white men" or "older" programming.
If KGO were still at the top, things wouldn't be different. KGO WAS on top for over 30 years with an audience that grew older day by day. It was, at the time, unique, when it first went to talk well over 30 years ago. But as the older audience, literally, died off, the younger up and coming audience was no where to be found on KGO-AM because, well, that group just plain didn't listen to AM radio. Ever.
Those who grew up and older with KGO ran into another problem. As their ratings remained high, along comes a new ratings methodology -- PPM -- electronic measurement. Actually, "radio hearing" not radio listening.
That helped kill the golden goose.
But why the problem with older audiences having much more disposable income and more time to spend their wealth?
Easy.
It costs roughly three to FIVE times as much money to influence a brand loyal, only sometimes consumer who's mind is pretty much made up in this day and age. They may have grown up owning Olsmobile's and Caddy's, but today, they buy Lexus and Toyota. They aren't much for brand-changes over the years and when the time comes for them to do so, it costs a lot more money to convince them to "Buy US!"
Ad agencies make the buys on media --- the businesses and corporations don't. They just want the most for their money and the "most" is in the active, upwardly mobile, not-afraid-to-take-a-chance "yuppy" or "last third of being a baby boomer" as well as exposing "new" products to "new" audiences who will, hopefully, become brand loyal in their mid-20s to mid 50s or at least to their 50th birthday. After that, it's an expense of huge greatness.
Prices of products would be forced to go higher, older people -- more protective of their retirement funds won't buy as much and the new younger demographics won't experiment and try out that which they can't afford.
Today -- you have 49 year olds spending their money on $300 video games -- as well as smaller, less expensive cars, trucks and goods.
The older people have their loyalties, the younger ones abhor loyalty and to keep consumer prices down, advertisers buy time and space that reaches those masses set to buy ... not to change loyalty. It's cheaper that way.
That's why P&G doesn't sell baby food to grandma. They sell millions of jars to young mommies because it's cheaper to do so, no matter what granny might say.
Advertising 101. Thanks for reading.
dear advertising 101...pity isn't it that those young mommies are feeding such garbage to their mewling spawn..setting them up for a lifetime of health problems?
ReplyDelete12:09 - LOL! You're right! That's why we have, say, Karel!
ReplyDeleteBe afraid! Be very very afraid!
Nice post, thanks! Mewling spawn. I love it.
Very interesting advertising 101. I still have questions regarding the validity of this advertising theory. I know in the "old" days, my parents, grandparents and their friends had brand loyalty. For instance, car wise, there were Chrysler families, Dodge families and so forth. However, these days with Consumer Reports, consumer reviews such as in Amazon, Costco, etc. people of all ages and especially Boomers read these things and base their purchases on them. Computer manufacturers change in quality such as at one time Dell has the gold standard in consumer help. However, it is possible that younger people buy more on impulse, but I think a lot of them that have some money also read internet reviews. Just my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteAnd one more thing Advertising 101. Building up brank loyalty may also be a victim of the changing times. Are these companies even going to be in business 25 years after they suck in the 25-yr-olds? Companies are getting swallowed up so fast by bigger and bigger corporations, it eventually will all be just one big company owning all the brands.
ReplyDeleteSo, they can blow up the demographic excuse and bring back our KGO!!!!