I hope they're true.
Why? The resentment. Beyond the fact that I always thought Leno was overrated, there's one gnawing thing about Leno that will forever stick out in my mind and millions of others. Something that Leno didn't do, didn't acknowledge.
His complete dissing of Johnny Carson. A brain fart, intentional or not, that will haunt Leno the rest of his professional and personal life.
In case you forgot, Leno's very first monologue following the King of Late Night didn't acknowledge Mr. Carson. Not a word. It was unforgivable. It was foolish. Most of all it was a complete slap in the face to one of the most popular and compelling TV performers in American history. And Leno didn't say a word. Classy, Jay.
Leno apologists said that was on purpose. That he wanted to get his "Tonight Show" regime off and running and that acknowledging Carson would have derailed that process and stymied the new guy in the NBC line-up.
Baloney.
Johnny Carson deserved better. He was the King for a reason. He delighted a generation of audiences and was second to none. A class act with a very personal life; perhaps even bitter and vengeful. (Just ask Joan Rivers). But he kept it to himself, mostly. Whatever...
Johnny Carson was the Michael Jordan of Late Night. As such, Jay Leno's snub was not only a slight to Carson, but to America too.
So, count me among those who will not miss Leno one iota.
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Everything I've read about Leno over the years, from a wide variety of sources, indicates he's a self-centered and cold individual who'd run over his own grandmother to get the gig he's got. Note how Kevin Eubanks left after the Conan affair, and hasn't spoken publicly about Jay since. Many celebrities will now not appear on the show. He has the same handful of guests over and over.
ReplyDeleteOh, and his "jokes" are about as funny as root canal.
Except Kevin Eubanks was a guest on the Tonight Show with Leno a couple of weeks ago - some grudge.
DeleteIs that what happened? I vaguely recall the change over, but wasn't really paying attention back then. I do know the pinnacle of the Johnny Carson era for me was in 1969. It was not for the (alleged) Moon Landing in the summer(jury still out on that one), but for the wedding of a ukulele falsetto troubadour Tiny Tim and Miss Vickie, who was about half his age of 50 plus-plus years.
ReplyDeleteDuring those years, my whole family, Daddy included , would watch TV together for certain events. We were pretty easily amused back then.
Johnny gave me the impression that he was actually quite ready to 'remove his crown' as late night king and Hollywood's biggest kingmaker. Johnny was ready the leave the stage while still riding high. All that forced mirth was hard work. I've read how tough and brinksman like Johnny could be with those in Hollywood who needed his show for exposure. In his private life, he was thought to be rather cold, like many of the most famous funny men. See Jerry Lewis for more vivid references.
On the other hand Conan O Brian proved that NBC's big money for a writing staff makes the difference. I was a Tonight Show fan of O'Brian..then when he went to TBS..just a big drop off in quality. His set that's supposed to be cheesy intentionally,was instead telling of low budget.
ReplyDeleteLeno though..may have appealed more to Johnny's old crowd with loads of un PC humor,where Carson would not have gone. How many Mexicans canyon fit in the van? was asked many times by Leno.
Nobody last forever,and Leno wildly overachieved.
Conan is more hilarious now than ever. More A-list guests appear on his show as well. Dumbass.
Delete"Johnny Carson was the Michael Jordan of Late Night. As such, Jay Leno's snub was not only a slight to Carson, but to America too."
ReplyDeleteYeah right, a slight to America! Probably a slight to the entire human race too.
So, you're harboring a 20-year grudge over a single snub of someone who had a protected history of meanness and vindictiveness when drinking too much off camera?
ReplyDeleteLegitimate gripe and I agree with you. But when you think about it, many creative people have/had major flaws in their life, (Sinatra, Jerry Lewis, George Carlin, Woody Allen, to name a few)--that said, you are right: Carson had a dark side. And he drank too. He still managed a grand career and was one of the biggest TV stars in the business.
DeleteRich could you please make your position clear because you're contradicting yourself on this...
DeleteDo you judge media personalities by their public persona or based on whispered stories people tell about their private behavior.
I liked Carson because he was likeable on television. Am I supposed to care that he had a dark side?
Leno isn't funny. Who cares if he didn't mention Carson's name. The only reason we should all applaud Leno leaving is that he isn't fucking funny. BTW, Conan is funnier that Carson, Leno, Letterman and Fallon all put together.
DeleteI don't think I would acknowledge the guy who did not think I should have gotten the job.
ReplyDeleteEver heard of "professional courtesy?" Just a thought.
DeleteGood lord! That inaugural show was more than 20 years ago.
ReplyDeleteI still like Leno, but it probably is time for a fresh, more youthful face. Jimmy Fallon is a perfect replacement. Conan was much too quirky for the time slot, and he wouldn't or couldn't adjust his late night schtick.
NBC totally screwed up last time. Pushing Leno out and asking him to put a friendly face on it. The five-year-long goodbye. The wrong replacement. Doing the final nudge when Leno was still going strong. Trying to do Leno in primetime. If they were going to put Leno out to pasture, they should have leapfrogged Fallon over Conan into the slot. They managed to alienate everybody -- Jay, Conan and their respective fans. The transition to Jimmy Fallon should be much smoother and amicable. In the meantime, Kimmel will dredge up all of his not-that-funny wisecracks from the last time. Fallon will bury Kimmel alive. JW
We know Leno slightly in a professional sense and he is a total gentlemen. What a crabby apple to post what you did, Rich! Jeez, who on earth cares after all this time.
ReplyDeleteAnd FYI, my parents couldn't stand Carson and mourned the departure of Jack Paar. Thank goodness for David Frost and Dick Cavett!
Dear sweet Rich, I know you need to come up with an angle on a story that is apparently in the news, but cheesy posts like this one don't blemish your target one iota, and simply make you look, well, lame.
I am sorry, but as your fan, I think you should look at how this post reflects back at YOU. With all best wishes.
If Carson were on the air today, Rich would hate him too.
DeleteI was hunkered down with Leno for quite a while behind the stage at a free SF event some years ago. He was totally cool, casually trying to get a conversation going just to pass the time. He is fanatically dedicated to his performances, the preparations for which occupy most of his time, but in his off hours, he is disarmingly eager to share whatever little tidbit of information he recently acquired.
DeleteTongue-in-cheek, aside, (I pressume), NO, I wouldn't.
DeleteDear "Sweet":
DeleteI reflected: You want to talk about a "cheesy" post? Look in mirror.
I look quite proper and quite sweet!
DeleteI was a big Johnny fan. I was also a huge Dave supporter. I've supported Dave since my childhood. Lately (the last 5 or so years) I've stopped watching Dave and feel he's kind of mailing it in. I wanted Dave to get the tonight show back then, and when he didn't, I never really watched Leno (even when he was tearing up the ratings all those years). I have probably watched no more than 20 episodes of the Tonight Show since Jay took over. All these years later I somewhat regret not watching Jay. All of that being said...I feel Jimmy is a good choice. I wish him luck. I like Kimmel (the few times I have watched him). The one who really makes me laugh tho is Craig Ferguson. I wonder if he will take over for Dave when he retires?
ReplyDeleteHave to agree about the snub. In the HBO movie about the late night wars the cause of that snub was said to be the call of Leno's agent-producer Helen Kushnick. Either way Leno has shown himself to be a little selfish. I truly believe that if Leno had not gone to 10pm, as the lead in for 11pm news casts on the local stations, the ratings would not have tanked, which of course affected Conan's TS numbers.
ReplyDeleteIf that one thing had been avoided O'Brien may have had a chance. Fallon may have a chance at 11:30, but that remains to be seen.
Yes, someone pointed out that Leno was not Carson's choice, Letterman was and it was his show that Carson made an appearance on when Dave came to LA for a week of his early CBS shows. That is very telling. Of course when Dave was on NBC, Carson's company produced the show, so he had a stake in it. But Johnny never returned to NBC, just Dave's show and would still send Dave jokes.
Letterman I believe has more than proved that he could have done the TS. Bottom line, Carson was a class act, and Leno waiting around for Conan-Hater Jeff Zucker to cancel the redhead was not classy.
Jim Simmons
Glendale, CA
Jim:
DeleteI read the Bill Carter, (NY Times) book and know about Helen Kushnick. She worked for Leno--not the other way around...Jay should have and could have mentioned Johnny. Kushnick was wrong.
OK I'm showing my age, 54, but as a teenager I enjoyed watching adults (Sinatra, Rickles, Henny Youngman!) on the Tonight Show along with Carson's skits of Aunt Blabby and Art Fern as Ed McMahon roared with laughter.
ReplyDeleteSince then mainly young "stars" appear promoting forgettable movies and TV shows. Different generation of viewers. Bad jokes, lame routines. Amazed Leno lasted this long. The kids deserve better, but would they appreciate it?
54? "Showing your age?" 54 today is 34, relax and have a cold one on me. ..And I too liked Rickles and Sinatra. REAL comedy as opposed to the posers today.
Delete> 54? "Showing your age?" 54 today is 34
DeleteWhoah you mede me feel good there.
So I'm about 29!
I'm sorry, but I cannot overlook Johnny Carson's mistreatment of Joan Rivers. For him to have cast his friend aside and given her the silent treatment, all over the pursuit of her own career interests, shows how childish and petty Johnny Carson could be. That is the type of behavior I would expect from someone like Karel.
ReplyDeleteYou had me till the end.
DeleteBut I agree with you about Rivers. He was mean. Maybe we don't know the full story.
American Experience on PBS aired a special on Carson a couple of years back. According to the show Carson was angry that Rivers did not tell him directly about her new show. They claim he was a very loyal person and felt betrayed by Rivers. It sounded as though he would have been fine with her move if she had given him a heads up.
DeleteJohnny was wonderful to watch, but not the perfect person as mentioned above in regards to his treatment of Joan Rivers. Jay is also quite funny through the years and although he has his haters, nothing I've heard makes me dislike him. I always think I'm only getting part of the story. Jay doesn't defend himself when people criticize. He just shows up every day and puts on a good show. I always blamed NBC for screwing things up between Jay and Conan. I could see both sides. Probably Jay doesn't deal directly with people when there is a problem and that creates resentment. Just a theory. Still he can be proud of a long career where he made many of us laugh late into the night. Obviously, we are getting to the end of an era with Jay and eventually Dave with the younger talent moving in. That's life. If you are famous, in time, someone is going to criticize and resent you for something or other. Some people have a better way of handling these things, but people aren't perfect.
ReplyDeleteLeno's manager (can't remember her name) at that time had major influences with the new Jay Leno version of The Tonight Show. I believed she was the one that told Leno not to mentioned Carson. She was the one that ordered the director to keep the single shot of Jay during entire monologue. She was the one that went nuts when some sporting event went long and she cancelled the taping for that night because the Tonight Show would be running late. I'm not saying Leno is innocent. But his 1st couple of years, he was being controlled by management. After the manager was dropped or fired, Leno, I believe, has been controlling his own destiny. He directly worked with NBC and not with his own management. The last couple of years with the Conan getting the TTS and he moving to his own failed 10PM show, Leno's status has been damaged. His attitude might have changed. Who knows?
ReplyDeleteI remember the Carson monologues. They got genuine laughs and sometimes belly laughs. Carson knew how to craft a joke that worked nearly every time. And when the joke bombed, he was confident and skilled enough to turn it around and get an even bigger laugh.
ReplyDeleteLeno gets applause, more often than not. I suppose as a small reward for at least making the effort to be funny. Jimmy Kimmel actually gets laughs. so someone on his staff is a comedy writer.
Excellent point 8:44.
DeleteCarson was best at recovering from a bad joke or a good joke delivered badly. Either way, his ability to turn a bomb into good laughter was amazing.
Self depreciating humor. I can hear the band play "tea for two"
Carson helped David Letterman get his start by handing off jokes from his retirement lounge . Leno never got that help & stood his own ground for less pay. For all the attempts to replace him. He is Still there!...maybe this will continue on as we have seen so many times before.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to follow the 'king' of late night TV, and Leno was going to be behind the eight ball to begin with. His not mentioning Carson in his opening monologue was a mistake, no question, but to diss the guy because of one oversight is being a bit harsh I think.
ReplyDeleteLeno was topical, funny, had good guests, and didn't seem to have a huge ego. No, he wasn't Johnny Carson, but then neither are David Letterman, Conan O'Brien, Jimmy Kimmel, and all of the other folks who are trying to ascend to those rare heights.
I would say Leno measured up against Carson the way someone like Jeff Garcia would measure up to Steve Young; he didn't do a bad job, but he wasn't a Superbowl winner!
Hard to believe but Jay was very funny, kind of "cutting edge" years ago when he was the primary guest host during Carson's frequent absences. Strange, huh?
ReplyDeleteWay to hold a grudge, Rich. I mean really, that was a long time ago, and water under the bridge. Can you not see anything past Leno's premiere night on the show? Can his long and successful career not withstand any scrutiny, as a result of that one perceived slight? I'm all for holding people accountable, but I'm also not hidebound. Leno had much to contribute, and a long career that started before Tonight Show, and will continue after it. Just my 2¢, whatever that buys.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone remember back when a DJ got fired and his name was never, ever, mentioned again. It was as though he or she fell into the twilight zone. That kind of mentality still existed when Carson retired. One door closed and another opened.
ReplyDeleteIn the Hollywood environment, however, its always smarter to acknowledge those who helped open doors. Had Leno been smart, he would have acknowledge Carson and the chances are better than average that he would have gotten a lot more help and support from a man who could still make or break a career with a phone call.
I agree 100%, Rich. Leno is overrated and unfunny. And he screwed over Conan. Letterman was always better. Carson knew it too: he wrote jokes for Letterman, and Letterman used them on the air, right up until Carson died.
ReplyDeleteLeno did not screw over Conan. NBC screwed over both of them. Conan was not completely blameless in the matter, either. He did a show for a 12:30AM crowd, successfully. That is more of a college-age demographic. All he did was transplant his show to the Universal lot, bring back Andy (who was cut for budgetary reasons, previously), and move his show to 11:35PM. The content did not change, and it needed to. The demographic is much wider at 11:35 than it is at 12:30AM. The comedy bits didn't translate to the earlier timeslot and the ratings showed it. Going head-to-head, now, Conan's audience is still about roughly 1/2 what Leno gets. Letterman and Kimmel both beat Conan by a sizeable margin, on a daily basis, too. The Colbert Report also beats Conan, fairly regularly, averaging about 50% more viewers per night (falling right between Leno and Conan in viewers) Source: Nielsen cumulative ratings, through 2/22.
DeleteSorry, I like Jay's comedy. I find it funny and not too personal or harmful. I will miss him when he leaves. Younger people actually don't watch that much television, especially network television. Making a change simply for that reason would backfire. The 12:30 guy is really pretty good and with some time will become better. He needs to work some on his interviewing skills. As far as Jay mentioning Carson, I suspect that was done on purpose, especially since Carson made it clear he was not his choice even though Leno was the most popular guest host and had not gone on to his own show like Joan did. Carson also encouraged Letterman to leave NBC which he did. Maybe NBC decided not to meet his contract demands for taking over the Tonight Show. They had to know he would leave when they did not select him. Why would they stay? Plus, moving Conan to 11:30 was a way to keep him and prevent him from leaving the network. However, when it looked like Jay was going to go to another network, panic set in thinking all his audience would simply follow him. Jay wanted to keep his employees together. So they came up with the 10 o'clock thing which didn't really help Conan out. Then Conan did so poorly in the ratings and seemed to have the wrong type of humor NBC couldn't wait for him to leave. Leno has the only No. 1 show on NBC and they are crazy at this point in time if they replace him.
ReplyDeleteRich,
ReplyDeleteOne of the problems with you and me being old dudes is that we remember stuff that makes youngsters scratch their heads and furrow their eyebrows, wondering what the heck we're talking about...
...as I'm guessing your Carson story, here, made a bunch of your readers do. I agree with you, by the way; and I remember every single bit of it. I never liked Leno much for both that, and for that he's basically a whiny, far-right-Republican jerk. Always has been. Be sure to catch Letterman's impression of him sometime. Very funny.
Youngsters, though, hate Leno for what he did to Conan O'Brien...
...which, as far as I'm concerned, was both outrageous, and easily topped Leno's Carson gaffe. It's interesting, now, in retrospect, to first go find and watch (on Youtube) Leno's opening monologue on his first Tonight Show after O'Brien left; and then compare and contrast that with O'Brien's classy good-bye monologue on his final Tonight Show. The latter aired first, of course, but it's best watched in the order I just suggested. Very telling, indeed.
Pretty much everyone -- except Leno, of course -- has sided with O'Brien, as well they should. He's got more -- albeit weird -- talent in his little finger than Leno EVER had! And more integrity, too.
Gregg L. DesElms
Napa, California USA
gregg at greggdeselms dot com