My take: Slight edge to Biden, particularly on tax reform, foreign policy, and Social Security and Medicare.
Style points: OK, so he smiled a bit too much. Maybe he was showing mock disgust. Sometimes it worked; sometimes it didn't.
Not a game-changer by any means; ultimately, this election will be very close.
Oh, and Ms Raddatz? Jim Lehrer, I hope you took notes on how to be a damn good debate moderator.
By the way, Paul Ryan: them some big eyes. Bigger than ET.
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Biden smiled a lot in the '08 debate. He won that one too. I hear he compared Ryan to his '08 debate opponent.
ReplyDeleteBiden did everything, but Pee on the floor...Thats how Crazy he acted.
DeleteBiden didnt look fit for the presidency, never has, never will. Ryan rope a doped him and all Biden did was interupt with the "car salesman" pantamimes. Gullinani was spot on about Biden being a fool.
ReplyDeleteYou sound like a bitter Tea Party member.
DeleteYou're kidding of course. Biden is a smart guy, and while you may not like him, he is smart and a straight shooter. I don't see Biden ducking questions ala Ryan ("I don't have time to go into the math). You do sound bitter. Find a better argument.
Delete"Gullinani's pantamimes", a line from Jabberwocky?Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gambol
DeleteTry libertarian, not bitter, disgusted is more accurate. You sound like your BS meter needs to be re-calibrated.
DeleteBiden nailed him on the stimulus (Ryan against it, but wrote not one but two letters asking for stimulus money for Wisconsin);
DeleteGot him to contradict Romney's latest stance on abortion whatever the hell that is-
And given the opportunity, Ryan still couldn't talk about their super secret method of 20% tax cuts that would be paid for because he wants to work with a bipartisan Congress? Only an illiterate tea bagger (or moral high ground serial adulterers like Newt and Rudy) buy that crap.
Now they are accusing him of being drunk last night - yes, Republicans keeping it classy.....
Joe Biden's debate manners? . . . . . Belligerent.
ReplyDeleteYou want manners? Hang out with Emily Post.
DeleteThis was a political debate and there is nothing wrong with either candidate calling out the other on lies, policy differences and flip-flops.
This Independent voter gives the edge to Biden who was stronger on facts, and quick to point out discrepancies in his opponent's positions. Ryan did well for a rookie on the national stage but on balance Biden dominated, even though the moderator seemed to be giving Ryan much more time to speak. (Sorry Rich, I thought Raddatz did a very poor job of the basic job of a moderator: to ensure that both sides have equal time to be heard. Which raises the question: Do any of these moderators own a freaking clock?)
His teeth kind of looked like a row of Chiclets.
ReplyDeletepiano keys
DeleteLots of talk about Biden and his smiles, but did anyone pay attention to the content of the answers? I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteRyan still comes off as the Republican Pit Bull. Lots of statistics, but not much in the way of substance when it comes to specific solutions.
Ryan's dehydration issue is of concern to me. The guy kept chugging water like he was in Death Valley. He must have an abnormally large bladder. I agree, he looks like a cross between E.T. and the Geico gecko. I demand his long form birth certificate! Biden easily won the debate, he called Ryanmney on everyone of their lies. Once Obama wipes the floor with Romney at next week's debate the Repubs will be finished.
ReplyDeleteI think on substance, VP Joe Biden did well. He clearly knew his material and spoke with confidence. Unfortunately, his facial expressions when Ryan was speaking was totally condescending. This undermined his potential "win", albeit some obvious lies he told with regard to Libya and our ambassador's assassination. As a result, I would call this a draw. This debate outcome won't continue Mitt Romney's momentum gains, but it won't reverse it either. Null event, in my opinion, thanks to Joe's mannerisms. It will all come down to next Tuesday's presidential debate.
ReplyDeleteI listened to the debate on the radio. And every time I heard Ryan speak, I found myself saying aloud, "What a liar." Ryan sounded robotic, almost like a human parrot. I don't see how folks can think he's an intellectual, since it was obvious he was merely repeating Republican lines/lies.
ReplyDeleteWhenever Biden started on some poignant or nostalgic point, like talking about his mother and father or the loss of his wife and child, I couldn't help thinking, "Man, he sure can summon up the tears in his voice on cue." And Biden sounded like he knew what he was talking about. In comparison to most other long-time congressmen and senators, Biden is among the least wealthy of politicians and I found myself thinking he was probably speaking not only from the heart, but truthfully and with a greater command of the facts.
You listened to the debate on the radio?
DeleteGod bless you!
Are you seriously heartless enough to believe that Biden doesn't associate sadness with the death of his wife and daughter? There was no acting, that was genuine sadness. Shame on Paul Ryan for bringing up a car accident in the first place. Whether he was purposely attempting to throw Biden off by remembering his dead family, or just inadvertently being completely insensitive it was a in very bad taste. That story should never have been told.
DeleteI don't care how rude you think Biden was at the debates. I don't care how much you dislike Biden. The death of his family deserves compassion and empathy and Biden does not use it for political gain. He rarely talks about it and Ryan brought it up, not Biden. You're calling him out on faking sadness over his wife and daughter's death and that makes you a pretty terrible person. You should really evaluate why you hate someone so much that you can't even empathize with them on an event that would bring anyone to tears.
"Debate Manners"?
ReplyDeleteI would laugh and guffaw as well at the the BS Ryan trots out, for a guy who (allegedly) hates handouts, he sure likes to take them, and give them to his folks...distribution up.
A Foreign Policy neophyte vs. Foreign Policy pro.
Gullianni is just pissed because Biden defined him and what he is about better than anyone else "a verb, a noun, and 9/11"...
Rudy Gullianni can't even reach Joe Biden's jock strap...let alone carry it.
Joe Biden was Disrespectful, Arrogant, and Rude. He constantly Interrupted Senator Ryan, Smirked at Ryan, Laughed to himself, (making me think he is on the verge of being Senile.) You'd think a 69 year old man, who is the VP of the United States would know how to behave better.
ReplyDeleteThe Moderator didn't help either, she shut Senator Ryan down constantly, and Interrupted him also. At least the last Moderator let them mix it up. Bottomline is that Joe Biden acted a Fool...imho.
Senator Ryan?
DeletePS - Anon 10:09 --- Ryan is a Congressman, not Senator. Been a Representative sinc 1999.
DeleteDon't know that he's not a Senator is more telling than his Eddie Munster looks. At least ... get it right. I don't like the guy because he is a wonk. Biden was on a fact truthiness mission and won. Ryan won on style.
Ryah had the line of the night, though ... about what comes out of Biden's mouth sometimes. See ya Tuesday.
Since when did 13-year congressman Ryan become a senator?
DeleteThat's right. You're wrong.
And what's with the initial capping of words? If you are trying to emphasis your points by inish-capping, you're doing it wrong.
And Biden is not senile. He seemed to be in better grasp of the facts than Shar Pei-faced Ryan and on point. And you'd smirk too if you had to listen and then retort to Ryan's lies and misrepresentations.
And you were critical only of Biden and the moderator. Your pronounced partisanship and willingness to belittle Biden and Raddatz are true marks of right-wing rhetoric -- ridicule on style, not on substance.
Congressman, not Senator
DeleteRyan told Anon 10:09 he was a senator. So that makes it so.
DeleteRepresentative/Senator = one in the same! But I "know" one thing, Joe Biden is Not a Friend of Ryans!
DeleteIf you don't know the branches of our government, I doubt if you have ever watched a debate on C-SPAN in either the House or Senate. This is what they do. And we are much more civil than other democracies. Have you ever seen a debate in the U.K. House of Commons? The Australian House of Representives? By those standards he was behaving very well.
DeleteDemocracy is messy. Hopefuly you believe in a democratic form of Government. When politicians have to behave in a debate like you suggest it's usually because they live in a dictatorship.
Eddie Munster (aka Paul Ryan) showed that the bullshit streams from the right. Joe's smiles where those of someone who is thinking "what a lying sack of shit" He called Ryan out several times. Problem with Ryan and people like Ryan is that they hate the government yet have never been off the government tit. Another chickhawk coward.
ReplyDeleteAnd is Joe Biden a "sack of shit" for lying on national television about Libya where we have objective evidence our delegation asked for security (Marine) support and was DENIED by the Obama administration. Another Muslim ass-licking administrative position at the expense of our troops. Sad.
DeleteAre you so dense that you don't intuit that Libya, a country torn by horrific, bloody strife, might just not be the easiest place to protect a foreign consulate(we are the foreigners)? You assume that a group of Marines would have had no trouble at all stopping what happened at the consulate. Have you no sense that there are classified issues here.?Apparently you want Romney and his pantywaist sons to go git those Libyans...cuz Sean Hannity sez those Middle easters(Libya is in Africa) sodomized those Americans, an idea he's pulled out of his own rear end? The US managed to get rid of Khaddafi...without invading anything. did you think there were no consequences? Did you even bother to read the Wikileaks cables over a year ago when Stevens wrote about the pods of Al Quaeda young men seeking the favor of Khaddafi loyalists? And finally, gutless anonymous, are you aware of the votes(2) by Paul Ryan( a member of congress) to severely CUT THE MONIES for embassy and consulate security????There's your figurative sodomy for you.
DeleteFor the past two years, House Republicans have continued to deprioritize the security forces protecting State Department personnel around the world. In fiscal year 2011, lawmakers shaved $128 million off of the administration's request for embassy security funding. House Republicans drained off even more funds in fiscal year 2012 -- cutting back on the department's request by $331 million.
DeleteThanks GOP and the dumb fucks that blame the President for the mess!
Christine, you continue to be a mean-mouthed and petty apologist for Obama. Did you bother to read the congressional testimony where state department officials, under oath, stated that budget cuts had nothing to do with this. I guess not, or maybe you only selectively read things. Also, federal contract records show the state department in May spent $108,000 on Chevy Volt charging stations for the american embassy in Vienna. I guess that is higher priority than protecting the life of an american ambassador. As Stephanie Cutter recently said, the fallout over this entire incident in Libya is all about politics and Mitt Romney's campaign -- who really cares about a few dead americans.
DeleteDid you send your resume to MSNBC for their new SF office yet? You'll do very well there.
This is a Fox News talking point, blaming Obama for the death of the ambassador in Libya. This relies on the premise that the President of the United States is so powerful that he can prevent bad things from happening anywhere in the world. That's just ridiculous. Bad things do happen and sometimes it's hard to accept. It's always easier to look for someone to blame.
DeleteFor Fox News, the choice is obvious. Blame Obama. They blame him for everything else that's wrong in the world.
I can't recall Democrats turning on Bush when the US was attacked on 9/11.
I'd prefer Eddie Munster, rather than the creature form "Tales from the Crypy." White Hair Plugs, Botoxed head, Liver spots on face & hands, fake teeth, and bags under the eyes Biden....
DeleteOld Joe is past his expiration date, its time for him & Nobama to go...
Choosing candidates based on hair plugs and liver spots makes sense in a beauty contest but is idiotic in voting for the President.
DeleteI'm really getting a kick out of all the wingnut assholes whining about Biden's "interrupting." These morons were all creaming their jeans when Rmoney did the same thing to Obama last week. Piss off, morons...
ReplyDeleteHair plug Joe can huff and puff all he wants, he has no choice due to the lack of accomplishment. The country is still worse off and the recovery...oh, wait, there isn't one to speak of.
DeleteFunny how easily some people can be duped.
BAMMM...jean cream!
Remember AL Gore's performance during the 2000 Presidential debate??? Biden has topped Gore as the Worst Performance during a debate. Joe Biden is a effing Buffoon/Clown, he didn't even have enough respect to call Ryan, Senator Ryan...Instead he opted for "my friend." When Biden is neither Ryan's friend, nor does he like him.
DeleteOf course all the die-hard Obama kool-aid drinkers think Old Joe did an excellent job, but I doubt seriously that Independents will think that Old Joe's behavior was anything but Crazy, Arrogant, & Rude.
Perhaps it's confusing for you. Congress has two deliberative bodies, the Senate and the House of Representatives(the big kids and the sandbox). Joe Biden, a prominent former Senator is now vice president. Mr. Ryan is a member of the less prestigious and much larger body, the House. To call him "Senator" is just dumb.
DeleteDave you show your anger-immaturity and your inability to agrue your points the minute you begin name calling.
DeleteI think Bernie Ward could use a listener about now.
That pic tells the whole story, "I am the sitting vice-president, This is all mine...mine...mine....
ReplyDeleteHis record for the 4 years, they bailed out Detroit. Why doesn't he tell the truth, they had to bail out Detroit because of the unions. All they care about is police, fireman, teachers and auto workers. Why, because that's where all the votes come for all these life time politicians from.
Yes because bailing out 12% of the labor force in the US is going to win you elections.
ReplyDeleteJoe Biden came across as hostile, angry and loud.
ReplyDeleteCome to think of it, that describes most Bay Area Democracts.
I agree with those who say the big winner was Martha Raddatz. Great job.
ReplyDeleteI'm for Obama/Biden, but I have to give credit to Paul Ryan on one thing. When the moderator asked him if pro choice women should be worried under a Romney/Ryan administration, he gave a fairly honest answer; which was pretty much, "Yes, they should."
Picture caption should read - "Bozzo minus clown makeup"
ReplyDeleteKSFO morning show douche Brian Sussman crapped in his diaper about the event, which means Biden mopped the floor with Ryan's bitch-ass
ReplyDeleteThought Biden did a great job. So what if he smiled at the BS Ryan was spewing?? At least he showed some passion and fight. Way to go Joe!!
ReplyDeleteBiden behaved like a total douche, typical of his form. Constantly laughing, smirking, filibustering - the guy is a liability to the Dem's cause and they are very nervous the day after the debate.
ReplyDeleteI take issue with Rich saying Raddatz was a "damn good moderator". She was crap; injecting herself into the debate, cutting off Ryan far more than she did Biden, and asking Ryan a number of loaded questions.
The purpose of the debate is not to score points for style, but to actually articulate your positions and views and defend them. That's what a debate is all about.
ReplyDeleteBut most Americans who paid attention to the debate were probably watching TV and got distracted by Biden's grins and Ryan's quaffing water. What does that have to do with anything?
I listened to the debate on the radio and was frankly pleased to hear Biden defend his positions with enthusiasm while backing up with well known facts. Ryan, on the other hand, mostly sounded like a robotic policy wonk who thinks he knows all the answers as he continued to repeat his talking points.
I understand that the Veep has to defend his administration's record and that the challenger veep has to attack it. But I wasn't that impressed with Ryan. He seems out of touch with the mainstream of America, unless he thinks most Americans are that dense to believe his simplistic rhetoric.
Biden is no beauty either, but at least he's got a better grasp of what the heck is going on. Perhaps just as importantly, Joe Biden, not Paul Ryan, seems to have more of the important gift of historical prespective, something that many of our 'younger' citizens who live in this 'LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!' world of today sadly lack!
I think the debate may go down as very similar to the Kennedy Nixon debate in which many felt listening to the debate that Nixon won the debate on points, but that Nixon looked so bad visually on TV, people watching felt Kennedy won. Biden I feel scored more points, but his bizzare showing on TV may be the lasting impression. He came across as a d-bag.
ReplyDeleteBiden was brilliant in drawing attention to and away from the many lies of Ryan. The debate formats allow bald face lying so you have to do something and he did. Good for him.
ReplyDeleteSo much civility on this blog . . . Ugh . . .
ReplyDeleteInteresting that Obama attended Raddatz's wedding-another example of "unbiased" mainstream media! Maybe Rush Limbaugh can be the moderator of the next Presidential debate!
ReplyDeletethe idea IS to ask "loaded" questions. You just didn't like that Mr. Ryan wouldn't admit to wanting to abolish the mortgage tax deduction,voucherize medicare, make you work til you are 80 before getting a fluctuating downward SS check, and force women to yield control of their uteri to his boy-boinking pope. Of course, you don't want him to answer any probing questions. Martha Raddatz took no prisoners and was top-flight.
ReplyDeleteIf the election were going to be close, the major pollsters would not have already left Florida and Virginia.
ReplyDeletePopular vote, the race will be within five points. Electorally, Obama will lose in a landslide. If that weren't true, we wouldn't have Suffolk walking away from two of the big swing states and moving their people to Pennsylvania which shouldn't even be in question. Republicans haven't carried it since 1988.
I am in Ohio and was undecided until I watched this debate.All of Ohio is now leaning Romney after watching this Jack@$$ laugh over Iran having a nuke and 4 dead Americans.This performance and bullying did not play well in between NYC and LA at all. BTW all the polls say Ryan won so stop spinning.
ReplyDelete8:07...I wonder where you get your facts...perhaps from Romney/Ryan. Check Politico today and you will see that Obama leads 51 to Rommey's 46 in Ohio. There are 3 current polls that show Obama in the lead. You mistook Biden's behavior for bullying. Sorry, but when false "facts" and outright lies are allowed during the debate, then it is appropriate to laugh out loud when they are stated. Otherwise, they go by unnoticed or believed. I'm not thrilled with debate formats, but I think Biden was brilliant. Also, I haven't noticed that "all the polls" say that Ryan won...maybe all the Fox polls.
ReplyDelete10.51: My degree is in PoliSci, my wife's BA and MA are in PoliSci and we've worked on several House campaigns within the last ten years. We know Tom Del Beccaro personally.
ReplyDeleteKnowing that a major pollster has walked away from Florida is a BIG red flag for Obama. Of course the media won't talk about it, it doesn't help them drive ratings in the last two weeks of the campaign. This is how they survive and pay the bills.
Have you noticed the talk about hearings in the House over Libya have died down? Have you also noticed all the talk about hearings for Holder have died down?
Just what do you think the reason is for all that?
There's something in the internals that's driving all this behavior among the movers and shakers. Pay less attention to what they say and more attention to what they DO. It's not the United States of San Francisco.
If that weren't enough, we have a friend whose daughter (BA, Dartmouth and JD, UCLA) is a staff attorney at Judicial Watch. They're saying it's over and has been over for about a year. The big boys are already divying up the spoils.
This is really beyond your control. Trust me. I've been to the big time and it doesn't look anything like you say it does. You don't have a clue.
Interesting post from an insider. In regard to your "beyond your control" remark, would you say the polls, the debates, the voting is just theater to manipulate the public into thinking that we live in a democracy?
DeleteI will start by saying I will be voting for Romney. I feel the country is going in the wrong direction. Obama is not the devil. I just don't think that he has done the job. But, I will say this. If Romney is elected I will turn on him if he spends his four years blaming the previous administration. I found Obama's excuse making for almost four years a bore and a turn off.
ReplyDeleteJoe Biden looked and acted like the rude IDIOT he is. Too bad Ryan didn't call him on the "you voted for Iraq and Afghanistan" dig when Biden himself ALSO voted for both wars. Ryan, just like Romney acts, looks and behaves like someone who belongs in the white house.
ReplyDelete